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Britain and Mediocrity

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
OK, bit of a cheeky topic, as the Brits might say.

When I hear people (especially non-Brits) review coasters in Britain, the most common phrases are “fine” and perhaps “pretty good.”

How many coasters in Britain would you say rise above these labels and merit the term “great”? As in, when we compare them to all coasters around the world, we still wouldn’t hesitate to call these coasters “great.”

None?
One?
Two?
Three?
Four?
More?
 
That is a really good question. In my opinion...probably four? Being:

Stealth
Nemesis
The Ultimate
Oblivion

That’s all personal opinion of course, but they’re the four that come to mind when I think of the true greats of the UK scene.

RIP Wild Mouse


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For me it'd be a measly list of 3:

1. Nemesis
2. Oblivion
3. The Ultimate

Yet to ride Wicker and Icon, so I'll reserve judgement there. Although those 3 rides are really fantastic, I'd say that the UK is completely lacking in a world-class coaster. Nemesis was (and still is to many) but as time has passed, I feel as though it's barely a draw for the average punter nowadays.
 
I'd say just Nemesis and The Ultimate really. Wild Mouse would have been at the top of the list but we all know what happened with that.

Oblivion looks really just okay especially compared to all the other dive coasters in the world.
 
Wild Mouse, because despite other parks having the biggest coasters, or the best theming, it gives the UK something completely different that cannot be found anywhere else, and the airtime is unprecedented.

If a park was lucky enough to have a ride as unique as this, they would definitely be proud of it rather than demolishing it on the quiet.

.... oh.

:(
 
Wild Mouse, because despite other parks having the biggest coasters, or the best theming, it gives the UK something completely different that cannot be found anywhere else, and the airtime is unprecedented.

If a park was lucky enough to have a ride as unique as this, they would definitely be proud of it rather than demolishing it on the quiet.

.... oh.

:(
Preach it, brother. Sorry to disinter this for a second, but if they had just announced that their insurance people and/or their maintenance people have informed them that this treasured ride must go, and we’ll be holding a closing ceremony/last rides day, etc. — I could deal with this. But demolishing it overnight without saying anything, and then releasing an insulting, vague memo about progress, that’s what for me makes the matter unpalatable. I will never be able to experience this ride, and now I’ll always have a bit of a sour taste when I think of Blackpool (which otherwise is a magical place for me that I’ve been wanting to visit since I was a little kid).
 
Preach it, brother. Sorry to disinter this for a second, but if they had just announced that their insurance people and/or their maintenance people have informed them that this treasured ride must go, and we’ll be holding a closing ceremony/last rides day, etc. — I could deal with this. But demolishing it overnight without saying anything, and then releasing an insulting, vague memo about progress, that’s what for me makes the matter unpalatable. I will never be able to experience this ride, and now I’ll always have a bit of a sour taste when I think of Blackpool (which otherwise is a magical place for me that I’ve been wanting to visit since I was a little kid).
I agree entirely, even if last rides weren't possible due to the ride not being able to operate, there are much better and more respectful ways that they have gone about it than tearing it down and hoping that nobody would notice.

It's a weird situation as I do continue to visit, because I love the place and enjoy the rides there, and in most cases BPB still offers a better day out than other UK parks. However, it has definitely left me with a negative impression of the owners and higher management, and indeed the park's attitude and lack of respect towards their customers. As an organisation they are no better than Merlin after the way they handled Mouse's closure.
 
Yeah the Wild Mouse was undoubtedly *The* finest example of its ride type in the World, I don't think that is true of any other UK coasters.

Other UK coasters which could be considered globally unique or world class are:
- The Ultimate
- Nemesis
- The Smiler (don't argue - it holds a significant World record!)
- Grand National
- Big Dipper

A controversial one I'd like to put forward is Oddyssey - say whatever you want about SLCs but there are 42 of them In the world and Oddyssey is the biggest and best.

Aside from these, there are plenty more that I would happily describe as "great" without being World Class, including Icon, Wicker Man, Stealth, Big One, Oblivion, Swarm, Milennium and of course Megafobia.

I think every country has its share of mediocre rides, it's not just a British thing. Although we do seem to have more than our share of Reverchon spinners!
 
I once described the UK coaster scene as one in which 'mediocrity frequently outweighed brilliance' and got an A in that essay :p **** knows how...

My spreadsheet shows that only 5 currently operating UK coasters score 8 or higher, and they're a little predictable...
Alton Towers Nemesis Steel Inverted Operating 12/07/2000 2000 B&M 10
Thorpe Park Swarm Steel Wing Operating 16/03/2012 2012 B&M 8
Chessington World of Adventures Dragon's Fury Steel Sit Down Operating 25/10/2005 2005 Maurer 8
Oakwood Theme Park* Megafobia Wood Sit Down Operating 25/06/2005 2005 CCI 8
Alton Towers Oblivion Steel Sit Down Operating 12/07/2000 2000 B&M 8

...if I take all other creds into comparison on Excel, most fall off the page.

It's not just Nemesis that is unmatched elsewhere in Europe, but generally, all the UK classics are bettered on the continent.
 
I don't get the addition of Stealth by people? Like, is it not just an off-the-shelf installation that does nothing different to the multiple other accelerators? Eh, guess I've just never liked it.

I'd put Nemesis and Ultimate up there (if not for overall quality then for uniqueness). I think Smiler has a good shout (mainly for the inversion world record rather than ride quality), Grand National too again moreso for the uniqueness of it rather than the overall quality.
 
I don't get the addition of Stealth by people? Like, is it not just an off-the-shelf installation that does nothing different to the multiple other accelerators? Eh, guess I've just never liked it.

Yeah, I’m kinda with you on this one. It’s okay and a fun coaster but not excellent or outstanding, particularly compared to what’s on offer in Europe/the rest of the world. Where as I can understand something bespoke being considered excellent, like nemesis, if only for being a unique (and very good) experience.
 
My spreadsheet shows that only 5 currently operating UK coasters score 8 or higher, and they're a little predictable...
Chessington World of Adventures Dragon's Fury Steel Sit Down Operating 25/10/2005 2005 Maurer 8.
Well, I wouldn’t have predicted Dragon’s Fury.
 
Actually Odyssey is a great shout as well if we're looking at uniqueness over 'quality'. I think that goes some way to accounting for the lack of 'quality'.
 
Nemesis & Icon for quality. Smiler and The Ultimate for uniqueness. Stealth is fun but beaten by its US and now European counterparts, and Swarm is good but not exactly groundbreaking. Same goes for Megafobia. So in answer to the actual question, 2. And some would probably argue against including Icon in that list. How depressing.
 
Okay, so here are what I think are some great or at least significant coasters that we have in the UK. I'm only going to list coasters that I've actually ridden myself, so here goes...

• Nemesis – I'm pretty sure I've heard somewhere that B&M regard it as their best work. It was a feat of engineering when it first opened, and is still a world class, and very unique experience. I mean, who would dig a hole that size to build a coaster in nowadays? Not many parks, that's for sure!
• Air – I haven't seen this mentioned yet, and I think it'd be fair to say that whilst it's not the most thrilling coaster ever built, it has still had an impact on the industry. It was the first of its kind, and the technology developed for it helped pave the way for future coasters of this type right around the world! That makes it somewhat significant in my book.
• The Smiler – well, it's a world record holder, and despite the coaster's current state, I don't think that fact should be ignored. Whilst it might not be everyone's idea of a "great" ride, it is nonetheless a very significant roller coaster indeed.
 
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I love this - so many marks for "uniqueness" for rides, but in reality, very few actually great rides on the world stage.

The Ultimate, Smiler, Oblivion, Grand National and JO are all in the unique category, but none of them are actually, really, that great. THere's certainly something about each of them, but if you were to take an equivalent of those rides from different countries, replace swap them and then look at it from a different perspective of if you were looking from the inside out at these rides.

So in 1994, LWV built Boulder Dash instead of The Ultimate and The Ultimate went into LC. We had Dragon Khan instead of The Smiler, Griffon instead of Oblivion, Colossos instead of The Nash or Alpengeist instead of JO. Would you sit here in the UK going "those other coasters are on my bucket list" and then after you rode them "they're really good rides"? I don't think so. I'm not saying they're bad, but just, well, mediocre. I enjoy them, but would prefer the equivalents I've listed :)

Nemesis benefits from being an old school B&M Invert. As I've discussed previously, the margins between them are small because as a ride type, they're all really good. So while Nemesis may not be the best B&M Invert, it doesn't matter as all B&M Inverts are great and it's immediately world class.

So we have one...

I think everyone here has been on that ride that blows them away. It doesn't just blow you away, but it makes you reevaluate things. I remember PMBO being mind boggling back in 1994. Bizzaro at SFNE ten years ago had the same effect and relegated PMBO into obscurity. Nemesis, to this day, still blows me away at times.

That's how I judge great from mediocre - but it only happens as you expand your horizons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with Will with rides rating say an 8. I loved JO and had some superb rides on the Nash and Megafobia. I could ride Oblivion all day and never get bored. They're all a firm "8" on a good day (some much lower on a bad day LOL ) - but they're not "great". Fun, but actually nothing special.

The Ultimate I hate, because it's brutal. I can understand why people enjoy it for being unique, but it is objectively a poor bit of design and a poor ride. It's all over the place and completely inconsistent. We should treasure it (as we should have the Wild Mouse), but it's not a world class coaster.

How can you tell if you have a world class coaster within a few hours drive of you? You visit it several times a year. It's why I always had an Alton Towers pass, but not a DMP or BPP pass. If I lived in the Barcelona area of Spain, I'd do Portaventura a few times a year. In Sweden I'd be at Liesberg all the time, New York and SFGA, California and SFMM, Virginia BGT, etc, etc, etc.

If Boulder Dash was at LWV, I'd be making the trip to Yorkshire three or four times a year - even though it's a complete pain.

So yeah, I think we have a single World Class coaster, and a few decent rides - but none at all that excel in the wider world. It doesn't mean that our parks aren't worth visiting, a day of even mediocre coasters is still better than a day at Asda doing the weekly shop ;)
 
Turning the question a little on its head, here, but does Britain really stand out in mediocrity? I mean, there are some countries out there with many really good coasters, but they tend to be fairly recent investments compared to most big coasters in the UK (benefiting from the leaps of progress in coaster design and technology since the big wave of UK investment in 1990-2004-ish). Neither Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, nor Spain had that much better of a coaster scene back in the mid-2000s, while the UK was top dog in Europe. The UK failed to keep up with the top tier, so to speak, but compared to most of Europe it still has droves of pretty great coasters. Not the greatest amount of the best coasters, but miles above almost all the rest. I'd argue Italy failed harder to maintain its position, and Spain only has PortAventura to prop up its claims to greatness.

The other outlier is the US, where there is a totally different theme park culture shared by a lot more people. Also China, which again has the benefit of recent purchases and truckloads of investor money.

Then again, I could see Britain falling further behind in the future, since it only has a tiny handful of parks actually buying coasters that aren't cheap clones, second-/third-hand rides from manufacturers and parks long since bankrupt, or neatly themed but ultimately tiny kiddie creds. The willingness to invest seems greater in other countries with an active coaster scene, and even France is shaping up its game. Meanwhile, the aforementioned technological leaps are raising the bar for greatness, which in turn makes more coasters fall under comparable mediocrity. Rides that could have been considered world class in 2005 barely warrant a shrug nowadays. And if a country's flagship rides were all built before 2005, they'd have to be really good in the first place to make the cut now.

Of course, ride quality is a subjective thing, and ultimately it's mostly enthusiasts that care about ranking coasters relative to one another. Still, even if you only look at marketable features or raw stats, new coasters in Britain are falling behind compared to countries that should hardly be considered competitors. If you had asked me ten years ago which country would build a seven-inversion multi-launcher, a 56-meter steel-hybrid multi-inverting woodie, and the tallest and fastest Dive Machine in Europe (within five years of another), I never would have guessed Sweden over the UK.
 
I'd be interested if there was statistics out there for how far English tourists travel for vacation vs. American, and if willingness to travel further distances correlates with fewer amusement parks "per capita" in country. In America, while there are a lot of amusement parks, they are truly only marketed to their immediate metro market (Cedar Point to Cleveland/Detroit, Kennywood to Pittsburgh, SFMM to LA, Dorney to New York, etc.) and are far more local/regional than national. There's also a factor of what is considered a good tourist destination; heaven forbid a hike in a national park be considered better than a roller coaster ride. :p

... in which case, maybe the question is, per capita, how does Europe as a whole stack up versus America?
 
... in which case, maybe the question is, per capita, how does Europe as a whole stack up versus America?

As usual, @roomraider is the man to go to. He does fun statistics threads every once in a while. The 2016 edition breaks down a lot of coaster stats per capita. Unfortunately, most of the pictures in that thread are missing. Perhaps there is a chance of re-upload? If not, the pictures in the 2013 thread are still up.
 
Turning the question a little on its head, here, but does Britain really stand out in mediocrity?

The one thing that the UK excels in, is mediocrity :) Hell, we're not even interesting enough to have a recognised national dish of rotted fish.

The thing is, I have no idea what kick started the coaster/theme park investments in the early 1990's. I think it was Alton's success in the 80's and a surge of new technological innovations AND the US (probably more specifically Orlando). I remember around the time seeing the great coasters - record breakers and new designs - on the news regularly. Orlando suddenly seemed to be "a thing" for holiday makers. Oddly, it was like when in the 50's/60's/70's the Brits found cheap flights to beach resorts in Europe which killed the UK seaside resort. Only this time we discovered exotic, exciting theme parks that we just didn't have. So people flocked to the Costa del Sol because it was "like Blackpool only with sun and no tat", but wanted places like Orlando because "they're like nothing we have in Britain".

And so there was a clear market, which I have no doubt Tussauds spotted as the future way into profit.

I don't want to flog a dead horse here, but it was really down to one man though that actually did this stuff - and that's John Wardley. In a very British manner though, I'll bet you that wasn't in any way, shape or form by design.

We're really odd over here. We don't encourage people to excel. "It's the taking part that counts" which is a euphemism for "I'll go out and do the garden today - oh, no, it's raining again but at least I got up and thought about it". We live in a country of mediocrity and panic when it isn't. I personally believe it's all to do with the weather and you can match our core personality to the way we react to weather.

Always expect it to be overcast and drizzly. Like a bit of sun but not for too long and not too hot. Like a bit of snow for the excitement for five minutes, then hate it because it's inconvenient and wet.

Anyway, we wouldn't think of employing a company to consult on something like "theming". That's exuberant Yank thinking. We don't subscribe to all that capitalist clap-trap. Young Bob on the front desk does some quite nice drawings, I'm sure that if we give him a tenner to go to the local shop for some bin bags and buckets and spades, he can knock us up the next Disneyland. I think it was the mid 2000's before people in the UK could say the word "outsourcing"without spitting like they had **** in their mouths.

Yes, our attitude has changed over the years (we've seen sense to a degree - but there are definitely still Bob's doing the theming at some places), but back in the 80's? You'd rarely look outside of your business for people to do this kind of stuff. Tussauds and JW were a perfect match. JW had the big ideas Tussauds wanted AND he's an omni-talent. Getting JW attached to Tussauds as "in house" fitted the British way of doing things.

It's an unusual symbiosis which kind of sums us up. Right person in the right place at the right time with the right people. Nothing by design, just a happy accident.

Anyway, why is this important when it was clearly the desire to copy the US (and mainland Europe to a degree - thinking Blackpool's relationship with Mack and Europa Park here) and take advantage of the popularity of "Theme Parks" and the new ride technology.

It uplifted everything. It raised the bar for parks to reach. You couldn't just dump a Pinfari on a blank bit of ground and yell "NEW COASTER, COME VISIT US!" Tussauds looked beyond the ride and created immersive areas of the parks. The holistic, professional view of real theme parks. Yet... Still mediocrity.

1994 for instance:
PMBO is a record breaker, I'll give it that, but it never paved the way for an Intermin Hyper like the US saw. Why not? Probably planning limitations, but also because it proved we were happy with "OMG IT'S 3000 FEET TALL AND GOES AT 200MPH!!!" bollocks.
Shockwave is "interesting", but it's not very good objectively. What the hell is all that straight track about? Poorly designed, probably due to budgetary reasons. "You can have a brilliant coaster for £15 million, or we can make a mediocre one for £14,999,999". "We'll have the mediocre one please, a penny saved is a penny earned after all".
The Ultimate and Nemesis were both accidents of planning restrictions. Though (while they can be mediocre in their own ride type) I don't think anyone would ever describe an old school B&M Invert as mediocre.

It was a feed into itself though. Alton pushed us into a Theme Park era probably ahead of when it would have happened (like in places like Norway, etc.). Then Tussauds raised the bar and gave us "Orlando in the Midlands". All this raised the profile of places like Blackpool, DMP, LWV, etc which could then get the financial backing for 1994, which then raised the profile of the UK park industry that allowed for more investment, which... dried up. It reached a saturation point. Too many parks and diminishing returns on investment. We went back into "British mode" and stopped doing things because they were the right way of doing them, but instead doing "make do and mend" and keeping costs low.

We've touched on a lot of the stuff from the mid 2000's in the other thread, but in essence, we don't look at the long game. We look at what we can get away with, rather than what is a good investment. We can do that because as a race, we expect mediocrity. We don't like it and we complain about it, but we continue to queue for it and accept it. When visitor numbers fall (like at Alton), they don't look at the fact that they've cut costs as being any reason, they just continue to cut costs. Offer less for more - with a new ride every few years (it doesn't matter what the quality is like, it will increase visitor numbers that first year by 5% and who cares if they never return?) to keep the punters thinking they're getting value for money. And it works. We're a nation of mugs LOL

I'd be interested if there was statistics out there for how far English tourists travel for vacation vs. American, and if willingness to travel further distances correlates with fewer amusement parks "per capita" in country.

Anecdotally, the impression I get is that Americans are more willing to travel further within the US, but the British are more willing to go abroad, but less likely to travel far within the UK.

So we'd happily travel a thousand miles into mainland Europe for a week on a beach, but wouldn't drive 100 miles to a nice seaside resort in Wales. In both cases, we'd complain about the locals speaking a foreign language though - and wouldn't touch the food (Worcester sauce on cheese on toast? You what?!?) :p

In terms of traveling to parks, I know a huge number of people who will make a single, annual pilgrimage to Alton Towers from afar. So traveling for 2-3 hours. That's right, 2-3 hours is a LONG WAY in the UK. The same people wouldn't spend an hour going to their more local park, like Thorpe or Flamingoland. It's a once a year treat and they'll make the effort. Hell, very few people in Stafford visit Alton Towers and it's only 18 miles away (though piss poor public transport doesn't help - it's a 2 hour journey to get across those 18 miles by train and bus).

We do HUGE trips or no trips.
 
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