Guess the event… (part review part rant!)

[Nicky Borrill]

I’ll give you some clues, see if you can name the event.

1) Huge batched groups forming conga lines through mazes / houses. Ruining any chance of scares, because you can always see what’s coming, as you see it also happening to somebody 10 places in front of you.

2) Actors who aren’t allowed to act, no improv, no creativity. Just scripted scares set to a strict repetitive schedule. Dictated by an audio track, for each actor, nearby on a loop. EXAMPLE: Loud noise plays on audio loop > scare > reset > wait 10 seconds > repeat from the start. With this formula repeated for almost every scare in every single one of the mazes / houses we did!

3) The same ‘type’ of scare every… single… time! No creativity. In the UK they try different things, ok, some of those ideas also get overdone when they work. Swinging from the roof, popping up out of smoke and lasers, chasing people with chainsaws, and so on. But at least there is variety. This event has the same, ‘hide around a corner / in a dark spot and jump out right on queue to a loud sound on an audio loop’ scare almost every time in every maze we did before giving up! It just doesn’t work when you can see it happen to at least 2 other people in front of you in the dense conga line, once every ten seconds!

4) Security guards in almost every room with a scare in!!! a) ruining any hope of immersion and b) further warning you of where significant scares ‘should’ be!

5) 27 and a 1/2 mile hikes to exit a maze and get back into the event. Energyladia queues aint got nothing on these exits!!!

That’s it, there’s your clues. Wonder if anybody can name the event, as I don’t recall any of these big drawbacks ever being mentioned! At least not in any reviews I’ve ever read, heard or watched!

If any of you can guess this event, then why the hell didn’t you warn me? And why does everybody sing the praises of this event so highly? One of my biggest disappointments ever!!! I get there’s more to it than mazes / houses, and there are things done very well here. But I go for the mazes!!! It’s a pretty important ingredient.

Please UK scare actors, don’t ever let this format find it’s way to the UK, you keep improvising and making each experience different, you keep making your own silly / creepy / scary noises, and stay away from pre recorded, you keep holding geoups up deliberately to give your colleagues chance to reset… It really is so much better, despite the lower production budget!!! I’d take your acting and an inferior set over this acting, no matter how incredible the sets and production standards are!

To any youtuber, vlogger, blogger, reviewer who has ever covered this event and not mentioned the ridiculous conga lines through mazes, or repetitive scripted scares… Shame on you!!!

/rant

Don’t get me wrong, the ‘event’ itself is great, atmosphere insane. The houses themselves are incredibly themed with amazing props. The production standards across the entire event are incredible. The houses just aren’t scary, at all, not even in the old reliable ‘jump scare’ way. That for a scare event is important to me.

I’m guessing there’s a lot of you out there, those of you who really rate this event, that don’t really care how good the actors and scares in the houses are, and that’s fine, this event is perfect for you. But I do care and if anybody reading this does too, be careful with this event.







P.s, if you haven’t guessed already it’s HHN, my biggest disappointment of the 2020’s so far, except maybe covid.

 

[Indy]

I mean, I technically put out a warning, but I still held back. You did a much better job of capturing the grievances.

I live in metro Orlando and can't be bothered to go to the event anymore. I really don't understand the fanfare that it maintains. I'm sorry to hear that you share my disappointment with it.

 

[davidm]

’ll give you some clues, see if you can name the event.

1) Huge batched groups forming conga lines through mazes / houses....

I thought perhaps you'd been off to see the Queen in a box....

 

[Nicky Borrill]

I mean, I technically put out a warning, but I still held back. You did a much better job of capturing the grievances.

I live in metro Orlando and can't be bothered to go to the event anymore. I really don't understand the fanfare that it maintains. I'm sorry to hear that you share my disappointment with it.

I missed (or forgot) your post, but I’m glad you linked it, as I was genuinely wondering whether the 2 howl o scream events we have booked were going to be the best use of our time. HHN is widely considered the best the area has to offer, and we have very limited time here. So thanks for renewing some optimism for tonight.

I thought perhaps you'd been off to see the Queen in a box....

Haven’t seen any news, but I take it from this, that the lying in state period has been reduced to a circus? Are the POV’s on Youtube yet?

 

[MackMan]

yeah that does sound boring. I think some American venues really hone in on throughout, perhaps a little too much. And also perhaps HNH being such a big event makes it so the actors can’t be more personal with their scares.

I guess in ways the “scare, pull back, scare” within 10 seconds makes actors no better than amitronics. The whole part of a scare attraction is live actors, one’s that are variable and live characters.


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[Nitefly]

Sorry to hear you had a bad time, I'm totally with you that the walking is insane - I've deffo whined about that several times on here!

I really enjoyed both times I went (2015 and 2018) - there was a good variety of IPs and original creations and there was some pretty creative scares with animatronics, 3D effects and the like.

I too found the 'Conga' a bit odd but in my experience if you try to create space you seemingly get less scares. You just have to accept the conga and that you won't get every scare each time. When I relaxed myself on that, I found that I did still get scares pretty frequently.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Busch Howl O Scream was so much better.

The event isn’t as large scale, or as grand. The houses didn’t have the same level of polish inside, in regards to theming.

But the acting was so so much better. There were no conga lines, we were batched into small groups. (Most) of the scare zones were excellent. The exterior of the mazes, with custom themed signs and facades, were a lot better than HHN’s tin sheds and TV screen signage too.

Even the endless downpour didn’t ruin the night (just our chances of a Gwazi night ride sadly!)

 

[Matt N]

Now I apologise if my opinion isn’t appreciated here, as scare events are not my thing at all and I’ve never been to HHN myself (to be honest, I rarely read or contribute to the scare attractions forum as a whole), but I found your review/rant thoroughly interesting, and I did have a few thoughts about why the event is like it is and why it might not have appealed to you.

In terms of your first point; I think Universal probably do conga lines because they need throughput in mazes by virtue of how highly visited the park (and presumably the event) is. Mazes and walkthrough attractions, by nature of how they are, typically have poor throughput relative to something like a coaster. If they were to stick to the formula you describe at lesser visited events of batching into small groups and letting people go round the attraction free flow, then Universal would either have to stomach extremely long queues for mazes (which would decrease guest feedback levels), or go down the Alton Towers route and start making scare mazes upcharge attractions that cost a considerable extra fee on top of park entry (which could see the event gain an unwanted reputation for being “a rip off”, and also price a great many out of the market seeing as Universal’s entry prices aren’t cheap to begin with).

However, I can definitely understand why the use of conga lines created a less satisfactory scare experience for you. I of course don’t have a full idea, because as I said, I’m not a scare fan at all, but one analogy that comes to mind for me is what John Wardley always said about omnimovers compared to the classical pier-style ghost trains when creating a scary dark ride. He said that omnimovers, while high capacity, did not scale very well to a ghost train style attraction because you could see the jumpscares happening to the riders in front of you, and that the classical ghost trains, while low throughput, were far more intimate and felt far more personal. I can imagine that a very similar situation is true for scare mazes, with conga lines being akin to omnimovers and free flow mazes being akin to classical ghost trains, in this instance. Sadly, I cannot think of a Duel-style halfway house within the sphere of scare mazes that has the capacity of a conga line and the intimacy of a free flow maze, so I’d wager that with the element of surprise and intimacy, as well as the personal nature, being a big part of what most people like about scare attractions, I can see why scare mazes, in the traditional sense at least, might not work too well on a Universal scale.

I can imagine that the sheer throughput needed lessens the sense of intimacy, and with Universal being the size of park it is, as well as the type of product it is, I think it’s hard for them to provide some of that rustic, rough around the edges feel that people often say they like about scare events. Universal, by virtue of the type of park they are, don’t really do the sort of “off-piste surprises” or “rough around the edges feel” that I often hear many scare fans say that they like about scare events. So if that’s what you’re into, I can see why HHN might not be your cup of tea.

I apologise if my non scare lover’s opinion isn’t appreciated, but that’s just my thoughts.

I hope you’re having a nice time in Orlando otherwise!

 

[MackMan]

Now I apologise if my opinion isn’t appreciated here, as scare events are not my thing at all and I’ve never been to HHN myself (to be honest, I rarely read or contribute to the scare attractions forum as a whole), but I found your review/rant thoroughly interesting, and I did have a few thoughts about why the event is like it is and why it might not have appealed to you.

In terms of your first point; I think Universal probably do conga lines because they need throughput in mazes by virtue of how highly visited the park (and presumably the event) is. Mazes and walkthrough attractions, by nature of how they are, typically have poor throughput relative to something like a coaster. If they were to stick to the formula you describe at lesser visited events of batching into small groups and letting people go round the attraction free flow, then Universal would either have to stomach extremely long queues for mazes (which would decrease guest feedback levels), or go down the Alton Towers route and start making scare mazes upcharge attractions that cost a considerable extra fee on top of park entry (which could see the event gain an unwanted reputation for being “a rip off”, and also price a great many out of the market seeing as Universal’s entry prices aren’t cheap to begin with).

However, I can definitely understand why the use of conga lines created a less satisfactory scare experience for you. I of course don’t have a full idea, because as I said, I’m not a scare fan at all, but one analogy that comes to mind for me is what John Wardley always said about omnimovers compared to the classical pier-style ghost trains when creating a scary dark ride. He said that omnimovers, while high capacity, did not scale very well to a ghost train style attraction because you could see the jumpscares happening to the riders in front of you, and that the classical ghost trains, while low throughput, were far more intimate and felt far more personal. I can imagine that a very similar situation is true for scare mazes, with conga lines being akin to omnimovers and free flow mazes being akin to classical ghost trains, in this instance. Sadly, I cannot think of a Duel-style halfway house within the sphere of scare mazes that has the capacity of a conga line and the intimacy of a free flow maze, so I’d wager that with the element of surprise and intimacy, as well as the personal nature, being a big part of what most people like about scare attractions, I can see why scare mazes, in the traditional sense at least, might not work too well on a Universal scale.

I can imagine that the sheer throughput needed lessens the sense of intimacy, and with Universal being the size of park it is, as well as the type of product it is, I think it’s hard for them to provide some of that rustic, rough around the edges feel that people often say they like about scare events. Universal, by virtue of the type of park they are, don’t really do the sort of “off-piste surprises” or “rough around the edges feel” that I often hear many scare fans say that they like about scare events. So if that’s what you’re into, I can see why HHN might not be your cup of tea.

I apologise if my non scare lover’s opinion isn’t appreciated, but that’s just my thoughts.

I hope you’re having a nice time in Orlando otherwise!

I think a major issue here is how they deal with big crowds- actors doing a scare, stopping, repeating the same thing- rinse repeat. It’s tedious; impersonal, not scary. The whole fun of a scare attraction is the variable- even in busy scenarios actors can switch it up- I’ve been there!

I’m guessing the poster would honestly have upcharges or even larger queues- rather queue for a good experience than an impersonal, linear, and overall boring experience.


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[Nicky Borrill]

Now I apologise if my opinion isn’t appreciated here, as scare events are not my thing at all and I’ve never been to HHN myself (to be honest, I rarely read or contribute to the scare attractions forum as a whole), but I found your review/rant thoroughly interesting, and I did have a few thoughts about why the event is like it is and why it might not have appealed to you.

In terms of your first point; I think Universal probably do conga lines because they need throughput in mazes by virtue of how highly visited the park (and presumably the event) is. Mazes and walkthrough attractions, by nature of how they are, typically have poor throughput relative to something like a coaster. If they were to stick to the formula you describe at lesser visited events of batching into small groups and letting people go round the attraction free flow, then Universal would either have to stomach extremely long queues for mazes (which would decrease guest feedback levels), or go down the Alton Towers route and start making scare mazes upcharge attractions that cost a considerable extra fee on top of park entry (which could see the event gain an unwanted reputation for being “a rip off”, and also price a great many out of the market seeing as Universal’s entry prices aren’t cheap to begin with).

However, I can definitely understand why the use of conga lines created a less satisfactory scare experience for you. I of course don’t have a full idea, because as I said, I’m not a scare fan at all, but one analogy that comes to mind for me is what John Wardley always said about omnimovers compared to the classical pier-style ghost trains when creating a scary dark ride. He said that omnimovers, while high capacity, did not scale very well to a ghost train style attraction because you could see the jumpscares happening to the riders in front of you, and that the classical ghost trains, while low throughput, were far more intimate and felt far more personal. I can imagine that a very similar situation is true for scare mazes, with conga lines being akin to omnimovers and free flow mazes being akin to classical ghost trains, in this instance. Sadly, I cannot think of a Duel-style halfway house within the sphere of scare mazes that has the capacity of a conga line and the intimacy of a free flow maze, so I’d wager that with the element of surprise and intimacy, as well as the personal nature, being a big part of what most people like about scare attractions, I can see why scare mazes, in the traditional sense at least, might not work too well on a Universal scale.

I can imagine that the sheer throughput needed lessens the sense of intimacy, and with Universal being the size of park it is, as well as the type of product it is, I think it’s hard for them to provide some of that rustic, rough around the edges feel that people often say they like about scare events. Universal, by virtue of the type of park they are, don’t really do the sort of “off-piste surprises” or “rough around the edges feel” that I often hear many scare fans say that they like about scare events. So if that’s what you’re into, I can see why HHN might not be your cup of tea.

I apologise if my non scare lover’s opinion isn’t appreciated, but that’s just my thoughts.

I hope you’re having a nice time in Orlando otherwise!

I think a major issue here is how they deal with big crowds- actors doing a scare, stopping, repeating the same thing- rinse repeat. It’s tedious; impersonal, not scary. The whole fun of a scare attraction is the variable- even in busy scenarios actors can switch it up- I’ve been there!

I’m guessing the poster would honestly have upcharges or even larger queues- rather queue for a good experience than an impersonal, linear, and overall boring experience.


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@Furiustobaco pretty much nails the point here. Conga lines can work a hell of a lot better than they do at HHN. The issue was that they were doing exactly the same scare every few seconds, and it was set to a looping audio sample, so extremely predictable when you can see it happening further down the conga line.

If the actors were to have free roam to improvise, then it would have been much better.

As a side note, Seaworld Howl-O-Scream was even better. We turned up late so were doing the mazes in just our tiny little group, and they were hitting us hard! This is something I’ve heard can improve the HHN experience too tbf (turning up late when crowds have thinned that is.) But I don’t really see how given the whole ‘set to audio loop’ thing. Also, to sidetrack a little, Mako at night…. Wow! Was a little disappointed in the day, felt it was more Silver Star than Shambhala, but it was great at night!!! Rerides on the same train with no queue too!!!

Anyway… Thinking of giving HHN another go tomorrow evening, but turning up very late.

 

[FistedColossus]

Ohhh that was a great rant. Youre right, no one really mentions it. Me and Mrs Fisted had similar feelings after our first HHN.

I do think the HHN hype is real though for the atmosphere, set pieces and costume designs. The Shining one a few years back was absolutely incredible and was like walking through the movie. That's the aim of it I guess. Once you're over the initial lack of jump scares you can appreciate it a whole lot more.

We got really lucky a couple of times and had a couple of solo walk-throughs in the quieter houses which was great.

Having just checked the lineup for this year it seems the only classic movie maze is Halloween, which seems a bit lacking compared to previous years.

 

[Lofty]

Sorry, but I did laugh about the fact that you said 'nobody talks about the conga lines or queues'...

That's literally so untrue. Every single person that visits the event mentions it. If you're going expected to be batched similar to how we do in the UK, when they have upwards of 80,000 visitors per night, that's kinda on you not putting 2 + 2 together.

The event is great as an overall event. The houses are beautiful movie sets with 'scares' sugar coating it really. You have to have this in your mind over going expecting to be terrified. I will also say that the USA market is completely different in terms of guest experience than the UK one when it comes to scare and horror. We have a history draped in performance art and theatre - along with 90% of Europe. You see that these locations that do not have the wealth of historical influence of theatre have the same kind of scare experience as most USA haunts, especially the big corporate one.

Over here, most operators have scripted pieces with defined characters etc., that just doesn't really happen over there. It's a complete change of operating when going from one to another.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Sorry, but I did laugh about the fact that you said 'nobody talks about the conga lines or queues'...

That's literally so untrue. Every single person that visits the event mentions it. If you're going expected to be batched similar to how we do in the UK, when they have upwards of 80,000 visitors per night, that's kinda on you not putting 2 + 2 together.

The event is great as an overall event. The houses are beautiful movie sets with 'scares' sugar coating it really. You have to have this in your mind over going expecting to be terrified. I will also say that the USA market is completely different in terms of guest experience than the UK one when it comes to scare and horror. We have a history draped in performance art and theatre - along with 90% of Europe. You see that these locations that do not have the wealth of historical influence of theatre have the same kind of scare experience as most USA haunts, especially the big corporate one.

Over here, most operators have scripted pieces with defined characters etc., that just doesn't really happen over there. It's a complete change of operating when going from one to another.

It didn’t have close to 80k, wasn’t even a sellout… Though it did feel busy. It also has more than double the houses of any UK event, and lasts for double the time.

Regardless, as I already mentioned above, conga lines are one thing, they happen in Europe too, and they ‘can’ work. The problem is the limitations placed on the actors (Make this movement every time this loud sound loops) it doesn’t work at all with conga lines, because you learn the loop as you see it happening to others before you even get to the scare. If the actors had free roam, and were able to improvise more, conga lines wouldn’t be too bad.

 

[Lofty]

Yeah, it has 'more than double of UK events' in terms of theme parks, but not scream parks.

A few things that you're unaware of that massively affect this: zoning, planning, fire Marshalls and local fire planning. They are massive issues within theme park halloween events within the USA. Much more than European parks.

Due to the horrible incident in Great Adventure many years ago, every single zoning area has stringent policies on materials, corridor widths, emergency evacuation plans etc., hence why a lot of the USA theme park events you go into usually have corridors leading to large open rooms in which the theming/set dressing defined the route within the one space. It's standard practice.

Again, it comes down to the two different styles of events between the USA and other markets - if you have in your mentality that you're going to a Halloween event it'll be a bit spooky, amazing sets and the characters are just existing - you'll LOVE HHN. If you go expecting batched groups and individual performances, you'll hate it.

I learnt this lesson the first time I went, every subsequent visit has been great.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Yeah, it has 'more than double of UK events' in terms of theme parks, but not scream parks.

A few things that you're unaware of that massively affect this: zoning, planning, fire Marshalls and local fire planning. They are massive issues within theme park halloween events within the USA. Much more than European parks.

Due to the horrible incident in Great Adventure many years ago, every single zoning area has stringent policies on materials, corridor widths, emergency evacuation plans etc., hence why a lot of the USA theme park events you go into usually have corridors leading to large open rooms in which the theming/set dressing defined the route within the one space. It's standard practice.

Again, it comes down to the two different styles of events between the USA and other markets - if you have in your mentality that you're going to a Halloween event it'll be a bit spooky, amazing sets and the characters are just existing - you'll LOVE HHN. If you go expecting batched groups and individual performances, you'll hate it.

I learnt this lesson the first time I went, every subsequent visit has been great.

Yeh I think tbh the mistake we made was going to HHN for the mazes / houses. Next time we’ll go for the atmosphere, food, drink, scare zones and general awesomeness of the event as a whole. I think we could definitely still enjoy the event on that basis. Because in every other way, it’s truly incredible.

We’ll treat Howl-O-Scream as the actual horror events, as they were perfect. I’ve never jumped as much as I did in some of their houses (at both parks.)

As a side note, I’ve done all of the UK scream parks to my knowledge, halloween is a big thing for us. Have never been in one from 6pm to 3am, and the only one with more than 5 or 6 mazes is Tulley’s, which closes at 11:30pm. Tulley’s has HHN beat in every area, apart from the lack of good rides.

 

[Dan Nguyen]

HHN has never really been that intense IMO. The canned scares and the conga lines really ruin that effect a lot.

But HHN is always worth visiting. Why? Because the set pieces are mind blowing. You literally feel like you're actually part of a film. Many of the originals have some of the best set design anywhere. Uni is definitely the gold standard in terms of set design.

If you're looking for shorter wait times, SWO and BGT are there to cater to you. Both events get crowded but it's nowhere near as bad as HHN gets. Plus the scares are more traditional so you don't see the actors well in advance most of the time.

If you're looking for better scares, try a local haunt. Screamageddon is phenomenal. They have two intense haunts where the actors can touch you. They have a few traditional haunts as well.

I'd recommend doing Sir Henry's Haunted Trail too. The props are cheap and it's a backyard haunt basically, but the scares are pretty solid and it's located in the woods so the setting is great (wear comfy shoes though).

HHN will always be crowded and those walks will be long, but in the end, it's 100% worth it. I do it every year for multiple nights so if I don't get everything I want done, I go on a different night.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

HHN has never really been that intense IMO. The canned scares and the conga lines really ruin that effect a lot.

But HHN is always worth visiting. Why? Because the set pieces are mind blowing. You literally feel like you're actually part of a film. Many of the originals have some of the best set design anywhere. Uni is definitely the gold standard in terms of set design.

If you're looking for shorter wait times, SWO and BGT are there to cater to you. Both events get crowded but it's nowhere near as bad as HHN gets. Plus the scares are more traditional so you don't see the actors well in advance most of the time.

If you're looking for better scares, try a local haunt. Screamageddon is phenomenal. They have two intense haunts where the actors can touch you. They have a few traditional haunts as well.

I'd recommend doing Sir Henry's Haunted Trail too. The props are cheap and it's a backyard haunt basically, but the scares are pretty solid and it's located in the woods so the setting is great (wear comfy shoes though).

HHN will always be crowded and those walks will be long, but in the end, it's 100% worth it. I do it every year for multiple nights so if I don't get everything I want done, I go on a different night.

For the record this is an old thread… Been told it was much better this year by somebody who was there at the same time as me last year, and went again this year…

 

[Dan Nguyen]

Lol sorry I saw the date and thought someone posted yesterday.

HHN has had those crowding issues for years now. If you read the HHN subreddit, plenty of people complain about the crowds and the pricing.

The canned scares probably won't be going away anytime soon either.

Some of those walks back can be ridiculous sometimes too. Last year was particularly bad because one of the mazes required you to basically walk 5 miles.

But it's something I subject myself to for a week out of the year. It's totally worth it