How much does a rollercoaster have to change to be considered a new credit?

[I'veGotFourB&MsInMyGarden]

I'm well aware that not everyone here counts credits but amongst those who do, there always seems to be some debate over what counts as a credit. After seeing some debate within the forums about whether Top Thrill 2 will be a different cred to Dragster, I thought put a similar question out there. "How much does a rollercoaster have to change to be considered a new credit?"

In my opinion, the biggest "grey area" is the addition of a new element. Especially in the situation of Hades 360.

I made a flowchart that makes sense to me and I think covers most circumstances. I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on the matter!

 

[Matt N]

Interesting thread!

Personally, I think that in the case of retracks, there has to be a very drastic, material change aside from the track itself for me to consider it a new credit. I know some count these like-for-like retracks as separate creds, but I do not. I’ve technically done both versions of Hulk, but count them as the same credit, and I will be counting Nemesis 2.0 as the same credit as the original Nemesis when I ride it next year. I wouldn’t even consider things like CanCan Coaster vs Eurosat and Python 2018 vs original Python to constitute different credits, as the rides are still maintaining the same basic layout profile as they had before.

To be honest, I’m not even sure I’d consider the addition of one new element or something to constitute a new cred in every case. In the case of something like Top Thrill 2, I can see the argument, as the launch pretty much is the ride in that case, but in the case of something like Hades 360, that’s just a ride with one altered element, in my view.

I mostly agree with RCDB on these matters, but one instance where I disagree with them is on rides like Phantom’s Revenge and PowderKeg. In my view, those are definitely different credits to the rides they replaced, as they are very significantly changed ride experiences compared to their predecessors.

In terms of new trains; I would not consider a ride to be a new credit if it has new trains. I wouldn’t even consider the floorless conversions to be different credits to their standup predecessors, personally, and when I ride whatever form the new Shockwave at Drayton Manor takes (hopefully at some point in 2024), I will not personally be counting it as a new credit.

 

[Rob Coasters]

Very nice looking flow chart! For me, none of these constitute as a new cred as I declare all of these changes to be just simple maintenance procedures in order to keep the ride going.

I might however have two separate rankings in my 'best to worst' section if I ride both versions of the same ride if I declare the changes to be significant enough (for example, Top Thrill Dragster becoming Top Thrill 2). I don't think the new trains on Shockwave will be enough to justify a new placement in the ranking, but it will definitely be acknowledged in the 'notes' portion of it.

 

[Niles]

For me to have a coaster become a new cred to me that means the original has to be "dead" otherwise it just part of that coasters history.

New trains: A no for me, even Stand-up to Sitdown otherwise this coaster would be...3 creds? I feel the layout/track is the cred.

Retrack: Hulk and nemesis have some of the original track so for me with the layout staying the same its just a freshen up and not new creds, like the Ship of Theseus its hard to say, for me even if in ten years they replace the original parts that survived this time with new track I would still say that's Nemesis even though none of the original track remains. I'm sure a lot of historic wood coasters have had everything replaced over time yet I would say they are still the same cred.

Now if you lost all the track in one go then yes, even if replaced with new track with the same layout I would say its a new cred.

Relocations: the coaster has moved, its not a new one, looking at you Flying Fish.

Additional track: This is case by case but Phantoms revenge, PowderKeg and Top Thrill 2 are very different from there original designs and I do consider the coasters they are made from to be dead, another thing I think helps is that a different manufacture has made it their own so to me these are new creds made with parts of now defunct coasters.

However Hades 360 to me just had an inversion added like how Megafobia had some double ups and downs added but to me its still Megafobia so same creds. Do-Dodonpa is interesting yet for me they switched a hill for a loop and not a new cred.

But hay you do you, while adding my Parque Warner creds on Coaster Count I saw you can count Rio Bravo as a water coaster, which honestly never would have crossed my mind as a coaster and to me is 100% a flume ride

​

 

[Matt N]

But hay you do you, while adding my Parque Warner creds on Coaster Count I saw you can count Rio Bravo as a water coaster, which honestly never would have crossed my mind as a coaster and to me is 100% a flume ride

Ah, the "undefined" setting... at Islands of Adventure, both Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls and both sides of The High in the Sky Seuss Trolley Train Ride are on CoasterCount under the "undefined" listing, but it would never have crossed my mind to refer to either of them as coasters.

I've done 4 separate holidays to Universal and somehow still never done Dudley, but I did do one of the sides of the Seuss monorail many years ago (albeit I can't remember which one or even which year I did it in out of 2012 or 2014... I think it was 2014, but I'm not sure), so if I counted those "undefined" rides, I would potentially gain an extra credit...

Each to their own, but I would never even come close to considering the Seuss monorail a roller coaster, personally.

With that being said, I think you can say that you've done "undefined" rides without adding them to your count...

 

[I'veGotFourB&MsInMyGarden]

New trains: A no for me, even Stand-up to Sitdown otherwise this coaster would be...3 creds? I feel the layout/track is the cred.

Fair enough. Personally I'd put that coaster down as 2 creds (ie. both of its sitdown phases are the same cred) but I can certainly see how things could get confusing in this situation!

That said, at the moment none of my creds have the potential to be a "duplicate" if you will. My stance may change entirely next year when I ride Drayton's updated Shockwave! (assuming I get to ride the original before it's changed! )

 

[Peet]

I'm well aware that not everyone here counts credits but amongst those who do, there always seems to be some debate over what counts as a credit. After seeing some debate within the forums about whether Top Thrill 2 will be a different cred to Dragster, I thought put a similar question out there. "How much does a rollercoaster have to change to be considered a new credit?"

I made a flowchart that makes sense to me and I think covers most circumstances. I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on the matter!

View attachment 26543

I'm not going to weigh in on the discussion directly, I just want to show my appreciation for the level of geekery demonstrated by making this flowchart, I salute you!

 

[hootie3]

Pretty solid, and nerdy (which I appreciate), flow chart. I'd agree with most of it I believe. I'm unsure on the train conversion ones as I haven't had that experience yet. If it's a stand-up to floorless conversion I would probably consider it a new cred since I'm guessing the experience is different enough. But again I've to ride both versions of any converted coaster. Rougarou I only have the floorless cred and the stand-up coaster creds I actually have were either dismantled or are still kicking with no conversion yet.

I have ridden both Hulks and I do not consider it a new cred even though technically I guess there's no real difference in riding both Hulks and riding the seemingly hundreds of Six Flags cloned coasters.

RMC conversions, yes new cred. Simple steel retrack on an existing woodie (Lightning Rod, Mine Blower), no new cred.

Question, does RCDB consider RMC conversions new credits? If so, how come they don't consider Phantom's Revenge as a new credit??? It's basically the same thing.

 

[I'veGotFourB&MsInMyGarden]

Question, does RCDB consider RMC conversions new credits? If so, how come they don't consider Phantom's Revenge as a new credit??? It's basically the same thing.

I believe RCDB counts RMC'd coasters as new creds. Not sure why it doesn't count Phantom's Revenge. I agree that it's pretty much the same thing.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[I'veGotFourB&MsInMyGarden]

To be honest, I’m not even sure I’d consider the addition of one new element or something to constitute a new cred in every case. In the case of something like Top Thrill 2, I can see the argument, as the launch pretty much is the ride in that case, but in the case of something like Hades 360, that’s just a ride with one altered element, in my view.

Additional track:

...However Hades 360 to me just had an inversion added like how Megafobia had some double ups and downs added but to me its still Megafobia so same creds. Do-Dodonpa is interesting yet for me they switched a hill for a loop and not a new cred.

The more I think about this, the more this way of thinking about it makes sense. Especially when comparing the situations of Hades 360 and Megafobia. Because I would never consider counting Megafobia as 2 creds. It's just that Hades 360 got an inverting element whilst Megafobia got non inverting elements. Congrats, I think you've probably changed the way I think about this!