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Roughly when did we see a transition from old B&M to new B&M?

Matt N

Matt N

CF Legend
Hi guys. I was just thinking about B&M for some reason, and I thought about how many enthusiasts seem to divide their lifespan as a manufacturer/their rides into two categories: "old B&M" and "new B&M". Old B&Ms are typically quite forceful, intense attractions, whereas new B&Ms are typically less forceful and more on the fun side of things. Many enthusiasts prefer old B&M and think that new B&M is inferior, but I don't personally think so. Anyway, the main reason I made this thread is because I find it quite hard to see where "old B&M" ends and where "new B&M" begins, and I wondered whether you guys could give me more insight. My personal suspicion is that the transition was some time in the 2000s, but I'm not too sure.
 
I reckon Kraken was one of the last "old school" B&Ms, that was around 2000. Silver Star and Galactica (then Air) were built in 2002, so somewhere between 2000-2001 is probably right.
 
I would say Apollo's Chariot marked the time B&M were trying something different. While there are still a few snappy moments, the main elements, camelback hills, were a lot less snappy. However, I would agree with Kraken being the last old school B&M.
 
Well, until 2003 the only B&M's I'd ridden were the Alton trio (I suspect the same is true for a few other CFers too), and based on that (limited) experience I would say that Nemesis and Oblivion are Old Skool (ie intense and awesome) and Air is New Skool (ie lame and lifeless).
Don't forget that B&M didn't even build a coaster until 1990, so anything built in the 90's automatically qualifies as Old Skool, surely?
 
I've found the corkscrews and zero-g's on newer B&Ms don't seem to 'snap' as much at the apex and the inversions feel more uniform throughout. Nemesis, Khan and the 90s Florida B&Ms all have the snap whereas Inferno, Black Mamba and Baron don't so I'd say the turning point was somewhere in the early 2000s.
 
Isn't it more just an age thing too? B&Ms seem to age well, and become more forceful over time in my experience.

Comparing Nemesis to my first ride in 2006 to my ride last year, it's become snappier and some of the intense moments feel even more intense. Nemesis Inferno is also a fantastic example; that's become a lot more forceful over recent years in particular from my experience. Heck, even Baron felt more forceful (and less floaty) last year than it did in 2015.

I can't compare any of the 90s B&Ms from when they first opened to now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't as forceful and snappy as they are now. And equally I wouldn't be surprised if rides that were built in the mid 2000s become a bit more beast-like in the next 5-10 years.

So yeah, there might not necessarily be a specific year which divides 'old-school' and 'new' B&M, it might just be that as B&Ms get old, they become more like the old school B&Ms people rate so highly.
 
I wouldn’t class it as “old school vs new school” to be honest. The changes have purely come due to technology and CAD/Force Vector design. As the technology improved, so did the handling of forces. That isn’t to say that designs suddenly became perfect, there was a learning curve (hence why we have things such as Hydra and Silver Bullet). “Old school” B&Ms just did not do as good a job of controlling the forces as newer ones. Some may prefere this, but there was a lot less originality with the older B&M’s too. They were far more cookie cutter than things being produced today.
 
Kumba felt much snappier to me than Kraken, both 7 inversion coasters. But my sample size of 11 is too small for me to notice any trend. I don't think there is a fine line when B&M became "new school".
 
I always thought the changes came as a result of B&M taking on the maths? Before they’d use Stengel and then they moved towards having the designs and alike done in house.
 
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