coastergeek14
Roller Poster
Hello, I was wondering why hardly any UK coasters have MCBRs, whereas pretty much all USA coasters do?
Thanks,
Coastergeek14
Thanks,
Coastergeek14
Why do hardly any UK coasters have MCBRs?
- Thread starter coastergeek14
- Start date
MouseAT
Hyper Poster
I'm guessing a lot of it is down to park capacity and ride cost.
Firstly, many UK parks are smaller than the major US ones. Even our "big" parks like Alton Towers and Thorpe Park can't compete for coaster numbers and overall ride capacity with the major parks in the USA. Smaller parks (such as Flamingo Land) just don't need more than one train on most of their coasters, hence they don't need a mid-course brake run. (Whether the parks would benefit from an extra train is maybe debatable. Whether it's worth the expense to them... well, probably not).
Then, we have to bear in mind that building big rides in the UK is far more expensive than in the USA, and we also have much stricter planning rules. This means that we tend to have smaller, shorter rides, which again means that there's no real benefit to having more than 2 trains (one going round the circuit, one loading/unloading). On rides like Nemesis or Nemesis Inferno, by the time one train is ready to go, the other is nearly back at the station anyway.
Firstly, many UK parks are smaller than the major US ones. Even our "big" parks like Alton Towers and Thorpe Park can't compete for coaster numbers and overall ride capacity with the major parks in the USA. Smaller parks (such as Flamingo Land) just don't need more than one train on most of their coasters, hence they don't need a mid-course brake run. (Whether the parks would benefit from an extra train is maybe debatable. Whether it's worth the expense to them... well, probably not).
Then, we have to bear in mind that building big rides in the UK is far more expensive than in the USA, and we also have much stricter planning rules. This means that we tend to have smaller, shorter rides, which again means that there's no real benefit to having more than 2 trains (one going round the circuit, one loading/unloading). On rides like Nemesis or Nemesis Inferno, by the time one train is ready to go, the other is nearly back at the station anyway.
coastergeek14
Roller Poster
oh yeah, i suppose. I mean, tbh, MCBRs on US coasters, (such as the Hulk) make little difference in speed, so what's the point of having them anyway?
coastergeek14
Roller Poster
Surely they couldn't stop a train in an emergency?
Yep, they can. Don't mix up MCBRs with trims. The MCBR is designed to stop a train "if required". If it isn't required, then it doesn't always catch a train as it passes through.
I think on some rides (like Rattlesnake at CWoA?), that there are loads of MCBRs and sometimes it will grab, sometimes not. It all depends on timings. So if there's a chance of two trains being on the same track section, then an MCBR may slow a train to ensure there's a safe difference between them. You see it on Air at Alton all the time, with the train stopping on the lift hill or slowing sometimes to make sure that the last train has cleared the run. I think Vampire uses the lift hill in a similar way too.
There are ride ops on here who will help to confirm these things
I think on some rides (like Rattlesnake at CWoA?), that there are loads of MCBRs and sometimes it will grab, sometimes not. It all depends on timings. So if there's a chance of two trains being on the same track section, then an MCBR may slow a train to ensure there's a safe difference between them. You see it on Air at Alton all the time, with the train stopping on the lift hill or slowing sometimes to make sure that the last train has cleared the run. I think Vampire uses the lift hill in a similar way too.
There are ride ops on here who will help to confirm these things
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Because... they aren't very long? I would have thought that's essentially it. Alton woud take a capacity boost on a coaster wherever possible these days I'm pretty sure...
Most rides with individual cars have them for capacity reasons, but any long train ride only has them to increase capacity if they are long. We don't have many long train coasters that are long enough for them. PMBO....? Think that may actually genuinely be it.
Thirteen uses it's second lift as one. That lift is only there for capacity increase, it was designed without it.
Most rides with individual cars have them for capacity reasons, but any long train ride only has them to increase capacity if they are long. We don't have many long train coasters that are long enough for them. PMBO....? Think that may actually genuinely be it.
Thirteen uses it's second lift as one. That lift is only there for capacity increase, it was designed without it.
coastergeek14
Roller Poster
oh right, is see now yup, your right, uk coasters are way too short for mcbrs. okay, so lemme get this straight, trims are for slowing the train in case it tackles an element way to quickly?
yup, your right, uk coasters are way too short for mcbrs. okay, so lemme get this straight, trims are for slowing the train in case it tackles an element way to quickly?
Mackem Lad
Mega Poster
Haven't run three trains for years after the small accident.
If the train in front hadn't cleared the final block brakes just before the station then the MCBR would hold the train behind it.
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If the train in front hadn't cleared the final block brakes just before the station then the MCBR would hold the train behind it.
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rollermonkey
Strata Poster
Former ride op here:
Every coaster track is divided into safety zones called "blocks".
Typically, to prevent collisions, there can only be one train per block. A sensor at each end of the block can tell when a train passes. (Normally magnetic or a photo-eye, but can be a physical device.)
A block boundary must have a means of stopping the train if the previous train has not cleared the next zone.
Here's an example:
The station is a block.
From where the track exits the station to the top of the lift hill is a block.
From the top of the lift hill to the end of the brake run before the station is a block.
In this case, you can have two trains, maximum. One in the station and one on the lift OR One on the lift and one on the track OR one on the track and one in the station.
If you dispatch a train too early, the lift will stop the train at the top until the previous train re-enters the station. If this happens, usually the lift hill cannot be restarted by the operators and a supervisor or maintenance will have to restart the lift. At 6F we called it a 'block violation' or say that the ride had 'set up'.
MOST rides will have more blocks than three for two trains to minimize the likelyhood of violating the safety blocks during routine operations. That's why the brake run is normally long enough to hold more than one train, then the brake run can be more than one block.
If you want to run three (or more) trains on a ride, you need even more blocks. A MCBR is always the end of a block, so as to be able to stop the train if the one before has not cleared the next section of track.
Clear as mud?
A 'typical' Wild Mouse coaster will have about 13 or more blocks to run only 6 cars. So there are plenty of MCBRs in the UK.
Every coaster track is divided into safety zones called "blocks".
Typically, to prevent collisions, there can only be one train per block. A sensor at each end of the block can tell when a train passes. (Normally magnetic or a photo-eye, but can be a physical device.)
A block boundary must have a means of stopping the train if the previous train has not cleared the next zone.
Here's an example:
The station is a block.
From where the track exits the station to the top of the lift hill is a block.
From the top of the lift hill to the end of the brake run before the station is a block.
In this case, you can have two trains, maximum. One in the station and one on the lift OR One on the lift and one on the track OR one on the track and one in the station.
If you dispatch a train too early, the lift will stop the train at the top until the previous train re-enters the station. If this happens, usually the lift hill cannot be restarted by the operators and a supervisor or maintenance will have to restart the lift. At 6F we called it a 'block violation' or say that the ride had 'set up'.
MOST rides will have more blocks than three for two trains to minimize the likelyhood of violating the safety blocks during routine operations. That's why the brake run is normally long enough to hold more than one train, then the brake run can be more than one block.
If you want to run three (or more) trains on a ride, you need even more blocks. A MCBR is always the end of a block, so as to be able to stop the train if the one before has not cleared the next section of track.
Clear as mud?
A 'typical' Wild Mouse coaster will have about 13 or more blocks to run only 6 cars. So there are plenty of MCBRs in the UK.
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
Furie is correct!
Vampire does operate like this, however - Stupid inhouse health and safety at Chessington says that only 2 trains can ever operate during any operating day. We'll never get to see these ultra slow lift hills ever again
HOW STUPID!!!
Vampire does operate like this, however - Stupid inhouse health and safety at Chessington says that only 2 trains can ever operate during any operating day. We'll never get to see these ultra slow lift hills ever again
HOW STUPID!!!
T0M
Hyper Poster
I understand the principal of block sections and brakes, but do they always seem to reduce the speed of the train regardless of whether they are stopping it or not. Is this a necessary part of the the design, IE would trains be overspeeding without the effect of the brakes? I would like to experience Sonic Spinball or the Big One without being slowed!
^They also have a set-up like trims. If the train enters the MCBR travelling too quickly then the brakes will trim of a slight amount of speed to slow it down. The difference is that the MCBR can stop the train too. It's fairly common to pass right through an MCBR without feeling any force from the brakes. I remember feeling it on Khan a couple of times and Hulk too. Now I think about, I don't remember the MCBR catching on a lot rides that have them, but it's hard to say if they didn't bite or I just didn't notice.
MouseAT
Hyper Poster
The thing is, if a train is stopped by the MCBR, the train has to be able to complete the circuit when it's released by the brakes. It doesn't have to be fast through the following section (and without any previous momentum, it'll probably crawl through most of the elements) but it does have to make it round the rest of the circuit.
With this in mind, you can't have high speed elements after the MCBR, as the train won't have enough momentum after an e-stop to complete the circuit. However, that also mans that you can't just send a train into the block after the MCBR at 50+ MPH, as it'll probably be going way too fast for the elements that are designed to handle a very slow train.
Therefore, even if the MCBR isn't stopping a train, it usually has to take some speed off to ensure that the ride takes the elements that follow at an appropriate speed.
With this in mind, you can't have high speed elements after the MCBR, as the train won't have enough momentum after an e-stop to complete the circuit. However, that also mans that you can't just send a train into the block after the MCBR at 50+ MPH, as it'll probably be going way too fast for the elements that are designed to handle a very slow train.
Therefore, even if the MCBR isn't stopping a train, it usually has to take some speed off to ensure that the ride takes the elements that follow at an appropriate speed.
Colossus
Giga Poster
As far as I am aware, It has always run in its current form? Whether they could run the ride without stopping on the MCBRs I don`t know, unlike a Mouse coaster or other rides that operate more then 3 trains, the trains on X are longer and hence take longer to unload and reload, so I should imagine if the ride was operated without stopping then stacking could be a real issue?
Also if you could I guess run fewer trains, but then obviously the throughput would suffer. So, yeah I would say it has always been like that and will be until the day it dies. Shame really because if it was continuous it would probably be slightly more enjoyable.
Also if you could I guess run fewer trains, but then obviously the throughput would suffer. So, yeah I would say it has always been like that and will be until the day it dies. Shame really because if it was continuous it would probably be slightly more enjoyable.
