Accident at Alton Towers

[Screaming Coasters]

^ No, the trims would not react in the same way a block would. Trims are not counted as a block and only activate in instances of over-speed. They would not, even in an emergency situation be classed as part of the block system on the PLC.

 

[mcg0ughchris]

^^^Thanks for that...was about to say the same myself! Even if it rolled back off the vertical lift, there's no way it would have been able to get back all the way to the Batwing. I highly doubt they were messing around with the train at the top, especially since the train was fully loaded.

Also, surely in a last resort situation where the computer detects two trains are inevitably going to collide, the trim brakes on the first hill would be activated?

See my post on the previous page!

The more you think about it it has had to have been a real comedy of errors to lead up to the crash.

There's so many things in place to stop accidents of this magnitude. I can understand the accident if it was a complete system malfunction but the time scales for me just don't add up. It'll be interesting to see how Alton address it, I can imagine their public relations cooking up something pretty special.

I'd dread to think what would happen if the car was coming from a greater height at a higher velocity. The 16 people were very lucky

 

[cjbrandy]

Its also lucky that The Smiler had OTSRs which would have saved lives in this case. The front row would almost certainly have been killed if it had lap bars, and the others would have had much worse injuries.

The lost leg is still just a rumor which is hopefully not true as unfortunately, the hospital refuses to give the exact conditions of the patients.

 

[Smithy]

The only reason I mentioned the vertical lift is because that's where all the rollback videos are from, the train that got stuck for 10-15 minutes with passengers on it was on the first lift hill and from the images I've seen it had just started to crest it and thus it would have made an evacuation impossible.

So what I'm wondering is that maybe they went to reset the lift hill to reverse the cart backwards so they could evactuate properly (as they can do with the vertical lift hill) but in starting it back up accidently sent it forward and over, at which point gravity took over.

Thinking about it, this seems plausible as they could have e-stopped the ride as soon as they noticed the valleyed train had not reached the second block (it may even have been done automatically) and then the above situation regarding the train being about to crest the first lift led to the lift hill restarting accidently.

 

[Robbie]

One more interesting speculative comment - I've read a report, from someone in the queue at the time, that prior to the stall it was announced that they were adding another train, so it's possible the stalled train had literally only just been brought onto the track and was trying to complete its first run. Could also explain why the ride may not have been in its usual operating state prior to the incident.

Someone else in the queue was telling Radio 2 that a few trains were running empty but one seemed to have problems going round, including getting stuck on the lift hill.

There are just too many contradictory reports (even from people there, who maybe don't understand how theme parks work) to get a clear picture of the run-up to the accident.

 

[MouseAT]

The train that got stuck for 10-15 minutes with passengers on it was on the first lift hill and from the images I've seen it had just started to crest it and thus it would have made an evacuation impossible.

The question then becomes "How did the train reach the point of being so far up the lift hill that they couldn't evacuate it?". If the block ahead wasn't clear, there's no way a well designed system would allow the train to get so far up the hill. The system should have shut down the lift chain long well before the train reached the point of no return.

 

[ECG]

^ Good point, do we know if the other Infinity Coasters have been closed for checks? Or are we treating this as a lone Smilier incident?

I spoke with my contacts at Tripsdrill and was informed that they are treating it as "a lone Smilier incident". The park has not been contacted by Gerstlauer to close or do anything different with operating Karacho, which has been up and running all day without incident.

 

[mcg0ughchris]

^ Good point, do we know if the other Infinity Coasters have been closed for checks? Or are we treating this as a lone Smilier incident?

I spoke with my contacts at Tripsdrill and was informed that they are treating it as "a lone Smilier incident". The park has not been contacted by Gerstlauer to close or do anything different with operating Karacho, which has been up and running all day without incident.

I think it's been down to human error

 

[Smithy]

The train that got stuck for 10-15 minutes with passengers on it was on the first lift hill and from the images I've seen it had just started to crest it and thus it would have made an evacuation impossible.

The question then becomes "How did the train reach the point of being so far up the lift hill that they couldn't evacuate it?". If the block ahead wasn't clear, there's no way a well designed system would allow the train to get so far up the hill. The system should have shut down the lift chain long well before the train reached the point of no return.

Aye that's a good point actually, from memory you also get held before going up the lift which I assume will be to wait until the train ahead of you has cleared the block and is awaiting to go up the second lift.

 

[cjbrandy]

We all know The Smiler and Saw are notorious for their unreliability, does anyone know how reliable the Eurofighters and Infinity coasters in mainland Europe like Karacho are? Maybe Merlin don't look after and maintain Smiler and Saw thoroughly enough.

 

[Smithy]

I highly doubt that's the case tbh.

 

[Jamesss]

It doesn't look like the train was past the point of no return. I assume they could have still evacuated from this position?

 

[Howie]

The park is now reporting that it won't be open tomorrow either (Thurs 4th June).
Pre-booked tickets can either be exchanged, refunded or used at any of the other Merlin parks instead.

 

[Smithy]

It doesn't look like the train was past the point of no return. I assume they could have still evacuated from this position?

Is that definitely from yesterday? I'm sure it looked like it had crested it in a video but maybe I'm wrong. Even so it also looks like there's steps just over the crest so it shouldn't have been an issue anyway.That rules out that one then.

 

[ECG]

^The lift hill steps go over the crest, so evacuations are possible even with the train halting at the top.

 

[Smithy]

Aye so no reason they couldn't have evacuated them there.

Alton's facebook is full of idiots at the moment (though to be fair they're getting an awful lot of credit for the way they're handling the situation);

Cbeebies land should be open its not fair on the kids my son has been in hospital two months and was looking forward to it I do see why the roller coasters are closed though !

hi alton towers ..just to say .. i am really disapointed in you ..you were one of the top premier parks untill this personally i was willing to put my life in your hands as i believed your safety record was second to none and trusted any ride in alton towers as safe now the trust has gone it seems to have gone down hill and overpriced since merlin took over with you even charging for car parking ,, the monorail.. and i,ve even heard the loos ...you need to step back to the happy days when it was tusards owned and totally review everything in the park from safety to staff by the way i hope the idiot that caused this has got his P45 and a size 11 up his backside down to the jobcentre...get well soon to those involved in the smiler smash

Will alton towers get shut down forever? And the smiler

 

[elephant58]

As serious as this accident is, it does annoy me when people are saying things like the ride should be closed permanently, considering that it's looking increasingly likely that there wasn't actually anything wrong with the coaster itself.

 

[Ben]

The train that got stuck for 10-15 minutes with passengers on it was on the first lift hill and from the images I've seen it had just started to crest it and thus it would have made an evacuation impossible.

The question then becomes "How did the train reach the point of being so far up the lift hill that they couldn't evacuate it?". If the block ahead wasn't clear, there's no way a well designed system would allow the train to get so far up the hill. The system should have shut down the lift chain long well before the train reached the point of no return.

Aye that's a good point actually, from memory you also get held before going up the lift which I assume will be to wait until the train ahead of you has cleared the block and is awaiting to go up the second lift.

Nah, the pause before the lift hill is to engage the lift chain, happens on all Gersts like this.

Although obviously some times it may be longer if there is a train in the next block - won't happen much though, they wouldn't be fast enough loading the trains!

So have we still not heard anything concrete about the leg loss? If that hasn't been reported again I'd call it BS.

I'm surprised the whole park has shut for two days to be fair, seems OTT. I don't remember any other parks where people have actually been spited shutting for days? SFoT? Darien Lake? Anyone know?

 

[elephant58]

^I think the shutting thing might be due to the British perception on things like this, unlike in the US, where the public may be more 'laid back'. I might be wrong though, so correct me if I'm talking rubbish.

And I think the Mail may have taken that report down, as I've not seen it again since this morning.....

 

[Adrian]

I'm surprised the whole park has shut for two days to be fair, seems OTT. I don't remember any other parks where people have actually been spited shutting for days? SFoT? Darien Lake? Anyone know?

It is possible HSE are enforcing closure until they are satisfied documentation, training and the general safety culture have been improved.