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Are we ever going to see a dual-tracked RMC?

Matt N

Matt N

CF Legend
Hi guys. I was just reading through the RMC Gwazi topic when I had a thought; no one seems to be building dual-tracked RMCs, even when the wooden coaster that preceded the IBox conversion was a duelling or racing coaster, if you get what I mean. Since RMC IBox conversions first came about in 2011, we have had (or are having) 3 duelling/racing wooden coasters converted, so in essence 3 prospective opportunities for duelling RMCs:
  • Colossus at Six Flags Magic Mountain, an International Amusement Devices racing wooden coaster that opened in 1980. The two sides of Colossus had 8,650ft of track between them.
  • Twisted Twins at Kentucky Kingdom, a CCI duelling wooden coaster that opened in 1998. Stella & Lola had 6,000ft of track between them.
  • Gwazi at Busch Gardens Tampa, a GCI duelling wooden coaster that opened in 1999. Lion & Tiger had 7,016ft of track between them.
So there's certainly a lot of potential in all of these coasters. However, when these coasters were (or are being) converted:
  • Twisted Colossus turned out to be a quasi möbius affair with one station and one brake run, but it had two lift hills and it sort of retained the racing feature in the form of pseudo-racing with itself. The ride's length was shortened to 4,990ft in comparison with the combined 8,650ft length of the original Colossus.
  • I think Storm Chaser turned out to only use one of the two Twisted Twins coasters (not sure which one, and do correct me if I'm wrong there). Any remnant of the duelling element was scrapped completely and the coaster's length was shortened to 2,744ft in comparison with the original 6,000ft combined length and 3,000ft per side length of Twisted Twins.
  • Little is currently known about RMC Gwazi, but it sounds like a rather bizarre piece of work from the renderings we've seen of it and rumours we've heard. It looks to utilise both sides, but it seems as though the duelling element is being scrapped completely and quite a bit of new structure is being added, including a new 210ft lift hill. The former lift hills are being used as large turnarounds of some sort and even though the length isn't known yet, rumours and renderings seem to imply that it will be shortened to around 4,000ft in comparison with the original 7,016ft combined length of Gwazi.
But the question is; why aren't parks making their old duelling woodies into duelling RMCs? Could we see duelling RMCs in the future? By duelling, I'm not referring to Twisted Colossus-style pseudo-duelling; I'm referring to genuine duelling where there are two or more stations, two or more brake runs and two or more completely separate coaster systems; when you ride them, it counts as two or more credits, if you get what I mean.

In my opinion, duelling RMCs could be something quite monumental if a park ever decides to go for them. That would be two amazing experiences right next to each other, and you could have all the fun of racing against the other coaster while experiencing RMC's already amazing elements. It would be both a technical masterpiece and a visual masterpiece, as well as being a real crowd pleaser and being more rerideable! The coasters would be especially rerideable if the two sides differed in some way; for example, you could have one side with inversions and one side without. I would personally really like to see duelling RMCs happen some day.

However, there are definitely many reasons why a park wouldn't go for a duelling RMC, in my eyes. These include:
  • IBox conversions are expensive as it is, especially if the ride being converted is quite large to start with. Duelling RMCs would mean double the associated costs.
  • Duelling could actually hamper the ride experience due to over-reliance on the feature, which wouldn't work if the rides aren't duelling. One of the most common complaints I hear about Twisted Colossus is its duelling (or lack of it).
  • If you combine the two sides into one or scrap the duelling element completely, it is easier to go for a cheeky record grab (e.g. for length if you turned the coasters into a möbius).
What do you guys think? Do you think we will ever see duelling RMCs, and if not, why do you think parks aren't going for them?
 
I am really hoping for PortAventura to jump on the cool-wagon and RMC Stampida. They always tend to follow the industry, like they did with Furius Baco and its hydraulic launch, Shambhala, their LSM launcher... just later than America.

Stampida's compact layout would make for an amazing piece of coaster track to work with. And I am sure the park would like to keep both sides for capacity reasons and for bragging rights (not that there are many European dueling/racing coasters).
 
oriolat2 said:
I am really hoping for PortAventura to jump on the cool-wagon and RMC Stampida. They always tend to follow the industry, like they did with Furius Baco and its hydraulic launch, Shambhala, their LSM launcher... just later than America.

Stampida's compact layout would make for an amazing piece of coaster track to work with. And I am sure the park would like to keep both sides for capacity reasons and for bragging rights (not that there are many European dueling/racing coasters).
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Ooh, now Stampida would be a great opportunity for one. And PortAventura probably has the sort of money required to build and operate duelling RMCs. So I'd definitely say it's possible!

This also reminds me of another reason why the parks I named above might not have gone for duelling RMCs; they are all cash-strapped to an extent compared to some other parks. While Kentucky Kingdom is making great additions, I'm not sure if they could really afford to build and maintain 6,000ft of RMC IBox Track. Six Flags is being economical after their 2010 bankruptcy, so they probably wouldn't want massive duelling RMCs. And Busch Gardens Tampa only operated one side of Gwazi in the coaster's final few years due to not having the money to operate both sides, so it seems plausible that they couldn't handle duelling RMCs. So I reckon that if a park with more money to play with decided to RMC their duelling/racing woodie, we could potentially see duelling RMCs!
 
@Matt N There is a lot of bad stigma/safety concerns around dueling coasters which I figure would put a lot of fear into the park due to the associated cost.
There isn't much of a back-up plan if they are unable to duel the coaster which will result in more harm than investment in having another track.
Hopefully we will see a GCI dueling coaster in the future but I don't expect anything from RMC. :eek:
 
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_dezaster_ said:
@Matt N There is a lot of bad stigma/safety concerns around dueling coasters which I figure would put a lot of fear into the park due to the associated cost.
There isn't much of a back-up plan if they are unable to duel the coaster which will result in more harm than investment in having another track.
Hopefully we will see a GCI dueling coaster in the future but I don't expect anything from RMC. :eek:
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I actually never thought of that! I'd presume you're referring to the incidents with Dragon Challenge at IOA amongst others?
 
If we're talking about iron horse conversions, I wouldn't bet on it. I mean there's always the chance, but what are the options? Stampida was mentioned, but what else? All I can really think of are classic Racer-style rides that probably won't be touched. There's Lightning Racer and Joris, but those are modern woodies that have held up pretty well so far.

But onto the main problem... so say another dueling woodie gets converted. The problem with sticking to the dueling aspect is that it leaves RMC with pretty limited options in terms of layout design. Having one single coaster take advantage of both structures allows more room for their creativity to make the best coaster possible. We know Gwazi is planning to do that (they likely wouldn't have been able to go 200ft if they did two sides) and I'm pretty sure Storm Chaser did that as well (and SC is considered one of the better RMCs).

Look at Twisted Colossus. When looking at each side individually, there's not much there. Just a single circuit around the structure, and doesn't have much room to play around with after the inversions. If it were two separate creds, it'd leave you much to be desired due to the length. Of course that's not the case, you get to go around twice to get a more complete ride, but they had to sacrifice the pacing (and sometimes the dueling, if the staff don't have their **** together). The second lift hill is the main reason why some people consider TC as a low-tier RMC, it just doesn't flow well together. I bet you Six Flags actually considered having two separate creds race each other, but RMC probably couldn't do much to fit in two complete rides.

So why keep the dueling aspect on the conversion when you can just do one cred that has more freedom to mess around and not have to worry about short length or bad pacing? Of course with one cred you can probably save more money on trains, parts, staff, operations, etc.

If we do happen to see another dueling RMC, it's more likely to be ground up.
 
These topics are abit pointless right?

I mean no one can answer this question as surely it's down to the park, and it's not crazy for RMC to build a dual track. So the answer would be.. yes if a park wants one..

There was a period of time where people would ask "Will B&M ever build over 300ft?" and everyone said no, same with them building a family coaster. Both happened, theres loads more examples but I can't be bothers going all the way back. Basically all manufactures arn't that strict, they will atempt to build what is asked of them, providing cost is fine. The technology is there, it's more about demand.
 
bob_3_ said:
These topics are abit pointless right?

I mean no one can answer this question as surely it's down to the park, and it's not crazy for RMC to build a dual track. So the answer would be.. yes if a park wants one..

There was a period of time where people would ask "Will B&M ever build over 300ft?" and everyone said no, same with them building a family coaster. Both happened, theres loads more examples but I can't be bothers going all the way back. Basically all manufactures arn't that strict, they will atempt to build what is asked of them, providing cost is fine. The technology is there, it's more about demand.
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You are absolutely right but there nothing wrong with a bit of vague, unfounded speculation; half the topics in this section are based on such things!

I reckon a duelling raptor would be the way to go - it would give a much needed throughput boost and would be pretty mental.
 
Id doubt it. Alan seems to be very strict with how he designs his rides, so id assume he would want to have them all be the single track style.
Possibly if we see a more intense and aggresssive one, it could be very hard to relaibly and safely have it be a single track. I think once we see custom layouts of the raptors, if we see a racing one i feel it would be a double track version.
 
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