You could just wait until its announced before saying "Yeah, it's going to have element X or Y".
Busch Gardens Williamsburg | Pantheon | Intamin LSM Coaster | 2022
- Thread starter Intricks
- Start date
CrashCoaster
CF Legend
We don't totally know when it'll be announced though do we. There's nothing wrong with a bit of speculation.
Oh yeah for sure speculation is great, it just gets confusing when you're reading things like "it's going to have" rather than "I think it'll have".
tomahawk
Strata Poster
Yes...I am aware. Just stating both have those limits for a permanent structure. Not a crane.
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Antinos
Slut for Spinners
Alright...a couple of things that we need to keep in mind when discussing ride height.
First, we need to be cognizant of the train's center of mass as it traverses the vertical spike and the tophat. The center of mass is the reference point for any sort of theoretical conversation regarding the ride's dynamics. I don't know what the length of the train is going to be, but we'll utilize a swag number of 50 feet long. We'll also assume that the train is also evenly balanced such that the center of mass is in the exact center of the train. Considering the tophat, the train must crest the apex with a positive, non-zero speed to continue through the rest of the layout. This means that at some point, the train's center of mass is going to be at the highest point of that element. Now compare that with the vertical spike - the train will be oriented vertically. This means that the center of mass will be ~25 feet (considering our swag number) less than the highest point of the train. Furthermore, coaster designers always design in a factor of safety into these uncontrolled dead end track segments. We'll just say that this factor of safety accounts to an additional 25 feet of spare track. This thought exercise equates to 50 feet of extra track needed from the center of mass of the train's highest point on the vertical spike.
Another thing to consider is that these zoning permits don't usually pertain to the true height of the project. I tried looking back and saw a lot of rhetoric stating that the project is 315 feet tall and this is probably not the case. Typically, city planners zone an area to a nice, clean height with lots of extra room and factors of safety involved. I typically like to think of these zonings as keep out spaces for any sort of flying craft (including drones), but I'm not an expert in zoning so take that for what you will. The permit likely reads that the park is allowed to build inside this giant, imaginary box and the language is simply getting misconstrued.
Knowing all this information, and also looking at the drawings on page 3, we can figure some rough heights for both the spike and tophat. Modern day coasters are built in segments that fit inside a standard shipping container, which if memory serves correctly, are 53 feet long. Let's assume that each track segment and support is 50 feet long to make the math easier. We'll look at the tophat first. Each of the tallest supports in the drawing contain three full length tubes, plus a base piece, plus a capstone that connects with the track. This should translate to roughly 170-180 feet at this track connection above that point on the ground. We can tell that the track is still quite steep at this support interface - that rendering from the leaked powerpoint shows that the track is almost vertical. Accounting for this, we could probably tack another 40-50 feet on top of that number for a total tophat height of around 220-230 feet above the ground to the highest point in the tophat. That really doesn't sound unreasonable. The spike is trickier because there are likely vertical support sections that we cannot see from a top down view. Assuming one full length member that is vertical (as evidenced by the cross beam connecting the base of the A-frame together) and two angled full length tubes, we can assume that the track-support interface is somewhere close to where it is on the tophat. Utilizing the rendering, we can see that the support connect about 2/3 of the way up the spike and the train is actually quite high up this spike (the front of the train is even with the interface in question. Using all of our assumptions, we can guestimate that the vertical spike is ~250 feet tall above the ground on which it sits. Again, this doesn't sound unreasonable. Comparing these with the rendering, the vertical spike is the tallest portion of the ride and is significantly higher than Apollo's Chariot's 170 foot tall lift hill. So with this though exercise, we can figure that the ride will be somewhere around 250 feet tall and not the 315 feet as many have been claiming.
Just keep in mind that this will be a terrain coaster and that the heights are above the ground in which the ride sits - not a height differential nor from the same reference point. These heights are merely ballpark to better gauge the scale of what we're talking about. Also, I realize that the rendering in the leak likely isn't 100% accurate, but from what we've seen with what Sea World Parks have released since the initial leak and in subsequent leaks, it's probably pretty close to true.
And here's the graphics for reference:
First, we need to be cognizant of the train's center of mass as it traverses the vertical spike and the tophat. The center of mass is the reference point for any sort of theoretical conversation regarding the ride's dynamics. I don't know what the length of the train is going to be, but we'll utilize a swag number of 50 feet long. We'll also assume that the train is also evenly balanced such that the center of mass is in the exact center of the train. Considering the tophat, the train must crest the apex with a positive, non-zero speed to continue through the rest of the layout. This means that at some point, the train's center of mass is going to be at the highest point of that element. Now compare that with the vertical spike - the train will be oriented vertically. This means that the center of mass will be ~25 feet (considering our swag number) less than the highest point of the train. Furthermore, coaster designers always design in a factor of safety into these uncontrolled dead end track segments. We'll just say that this factor of safety accounts to an additional 25 feet of spare track. This thought exercise equates to 50 feet of extra track needed from the center of mass of the train's highest point on the vertical spike.
Another thing to consider is that these zoning permits don't usually pertain to the true height of the project. I tried looking back and saw a lot of rhetoric stating that the project is 315 feet tall and this is probably not the case. Typically, city planners zone an area to a nice, clean height with lots of extra room and factors of safety involved. I typically like to think of these zonings as keep out spaces for any sort of flying craft (including drones), but I'm not an expert in zoning so take that for what you will. The permit likely reads that the park is allowed to build inside this giant, imaginary box and the language is simply getting misconstrued.
Knowing all this information, and also looking at the drawings on page 3, we can figure some rough heights for both the spike and tophat. Modern day coasters are built in segments that fit inside a standard shipping container, which if memory serves correctly, are 53 feet long. Let's assume that each track segment and support is 50 feet long to make the math easier. We'll look at the tophat first. Each of the tallest supports in the drawing contain three full length tubes, plus a base piece, plus a capstone that connects with the track. This should translate to roughly 170-180 feet at this track connection above that point on the ground. We can tell that the track is still quite steep at this support interface - that rendering from the leaked powerpoint shows that the track is almost vertical. Accounting for this, we could probably tack another 40-50 feet on top of that number for a total tophat height of around 220-230 feet above the ground to the highest point in the tophat. That really doesn't sound unreasonable. The spike is trickier because there are likely vertical support sections that we cannot see from a top down view. Assuming one full length member that is vertical (as evidenced by the cross beam connecting the base of the A-frame together) and two angled full length tubes, we can assume that the track-support interface is somewhere close to where it is on the tophat. Utilizing the rendering, we can see that the support connect about 2/3 of the way up the spike and the train is actually quite high up this spike (the front of the train is even with the interface in question. Using all of our assumptions, we can guestimate that the vertical spike is ~250 feet tall above the ground on which it sits. Again, this doesn't sound unreasonable. Comparing these with the rendering, the vertical spike is the tallest portion of the ride and is significantly higher than Apollo's Chariot's 170 foot tall lift hill. So with this though exercise, we can figure that the ride will be somewhere around 250 feet tall and not the 315 feet as many have been claiming.
Just keep in mind that this will be a terrain coaster and that the heights are above the ground in which the ride sits - not a height differential nor from the same reference point. These heights are merely ballpark to better gauge the scale of what we're talking about. Also, I realize that the rendering in the leak likely isn't 100% accurate, but from what we've seen with what Sea World Parks have released since the initial leak and in subsequent leaks, it's probably pretty close to true.
And here's the graphics for reference:
Kw6sTheater
Hyper Poster
Back when Tempesto had its height permit filed, it was listed as a 240 feet / 73 meters above grade structure. The coaster itself is only 150 feet / 46 meters tall, which makes me think this ride would only break the 200 foot / 61 meter ceiling rather than being the 315 footer some of us coasterfans have been expecting.
This is actually a good observation. Are you in a position to find the Tempesto permit (I wouldn't really know where to start!)? Would certainly add precedent to the sub-300ft maximum height.
Kw6sTheater
Hyper Poster
It's on our rival forums.
Jogging-God
Roller Poster
ParkFans?
CrashCoaster
CF Legend
It's TPR.
Jogging-God
Roller Poster
Oh. I thought the Tempesto permit came from the BGW fan site.
CrashCoaster
CF Legend
Is anyone honestly surprised?
Kw6sTheater
Hyper Poster
No. Based on what I mentioned before about Tempesto's height permit being 240' above grade whereas the actual coaster itself is only 150', I think that Project MMXX will end up being a hyper coaster - still super exciting!
CrashCoaster
CF Legend
I mean Antarctica isn't exactly close.
