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Canada's Wonderland |"Leviathan"| B&M HyperGiga

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^^Another thing to remember is that Millennium Force was Cedar Point's fourteenth coaster and Leviathan is Canada's Wonderland's sixteenth. And CWL does have a wide variety of coasters, they're just mostly not top-tier ones. Two woodies, a suspended, an invert, a flyer, a launch, an old-school looper, and a boomerang. That's a nice group, even if many of them are the second-tier models. CWL is absolutely a big enough park to have two coasters this major. AND, if that weren't enough, is everyone forgetting that megacoasters are consistently the highest ranked steel coasters? Bizarro, Diamondback, Millennium Force, all the way back to Magnum.
And who knows? Maybe we'll see a good flyer replace Crypt in the next couple years. Now that we have Leviathan and Behemoth, an air-themed coaster called Ziz doesn't seem unlikely.

And your claim that Intimidator has ANY sort of airtime is ludicrous. It.. well.. how should I put it.. 'sucked.' Even for a B&M Hyper it was terrible..
Click to expand...
...Intimidator was packed with airtime. Every hill had huge ejector airtime. I felt like I was falling out of my seat on a couple hills. Maybe you got it on an off day.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Intricks said:
^^ Cedar Point, look across the park. Your argument has been deemed invalid.

The only beef you have with this is that it is the same Manufacturer. Behemoth is like Magnum and Leviathan is like Millennium Force. One has hills, the other has layout. You honestly need to stop using the "too similar" argument when Millennium offers the same **** thing as Magnum, just on a much taller scale and different layout.

Switching between the hideouts'...
Click to expand...

Magnum- 1989

Millennium force -2000

That's quite a difference in coaster technology. The difference here is 4 years and it's the same manufacturer. Not the same situation what so ever. If Leviathan was installed 11 years after Behemoth I don't think we would have a big problem with it.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Intricks said:
^^ Cedar Point, look across the park. Your argument has been deemed invalid.

The only beef you have with this is that it is the same Manufacturer. Behemoth is like Magnum and Leviathan is like Millennium Force. One has hills, the other has layout. You honestly need to stop using the "too similar" argument when Millennium offers the same **** thing as Magnum, just on a much taller scale and different layout.

Switching between the hideouts'...
Click to expand...

Several other parks in the chain seem worthy of another coaster.. especially of a taller one. CW built the same type of ride.. with nearly the same type of layout.. 200 yards away. That's like me killing someone with a knife on one side of my house and killing them with a fork on the other. Ooo.. but when I killed them with a fork.. they were on top of a bunk bed.

Bull.

Also..

Magnum- 1989

Millennium force -2000

That's quite a difference in coaster technology. The difference here is 4 years and it's the same manufacturer. Not the same situation what so ever. If Leviathan was installed 11 years after Behemoth I don't think we would have a big problem with it.
Click to expand...

That.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Holy ****. This is not what I expected to find when I opened CF this morning. Hooray for B&M growing a larger set of balls to break the 300ft mark! :D
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Who cares when they were built? The point is they're different. And CWL should have gotten a hypercoaster years and years before Behemoth anyway. I always thought of that as a sort of make-up ride, or an "I'm-sorry-Paramount-mistreated-you" present. Leviathan is a logical next step. Yeah, I'd like to see a dive machine or a floorless or what have you, and maybe we will. But this is good too.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^^^^ Actually, same general thought for this argument entirely.

Behemoth has a layout of a typical hyper, meaning hills. What has nothing but hills and is a hyper at Cedar Point? Magnum.

Leviathan is a giga. With a few airtime hills, a few overbanks, low to the ground turns and something B&M hasnt done to my knowledge, low airtime hills. What has the same general layout at Cedar Point? Millennium Force.

Now, using what Ive just said, get rid of the difference of manufacturers and ride technology. Look at the basic layout comparisson only.

Do you see it? If yes, good! If no, oh well, I tried to give you a pictured image.

Basically, we are seeing a repeat of Cedar Point. Leviathan to Behemoth is what Millennium Force is to Magnum. By using the argument of "They are too similar", then Millennium Force should never have come around because of the similarities to Magnum. Hence why that argument is invalid.

This ride we be as different a ride to Behemoth, no matter what is being said. Im absolutely livid at the fact a greater part of this forum is calling this rubbish with only an argument of either "too similar", "should have been in a different park" or "its a b&m, so no forces are going to be there" as their only valid points.

Honestly, grow up and realize that B&M is doing something great and you are calling it rubbish for really moot points.

*end rant*

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

So my post wasn't worth anything to you eh? Nothing I said was valid in any sense? No? Of course not.

WAT EV.

Please though, stop stating that people are calling this rubbish. I don't believe anyone has said ANYTHING negative about the coaster itself other than that trims might affect it. And we're going to get that kind of comment on any B&M soooooo, stop making a big deal out of this. :?
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Nothing negative? Ok, can I have a pair of those ruby shades please?

Next, I only said the argument of "too similar" is invalid. What you said makes sense and has a point, but by denying the similarities to this argument because of 11 years difference and different builders isnt proper.

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

And I think it is proper. We have different definitions of proper I suppose. That ends that I guess.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^^^I think I am the only person who has **** on this ride, and that's because of how I experienced trims on B&M rides before, and even with that I said it looks fun, but the location is case and point WRONG. Tell me, would you build a 12 theater cinema on one corner of the street, and then a few years later, when you have the opportunity to build say a nice set of complimentary restaurants next to it, yet you instead build a 14 theater cinema with the 2 different theaters being fork and screen (fork and screen is where you watch a movie and you have a waiter, simply amazing btw)? Yet you own a plot of land in another area that is in need of a nice new movie theater, well several areas, but you say "**** you" and build it across from your already new one. Business wise, horrible idea.

And yes, 11 years is a HUGE difference. Look at the technology between the two, hell just the lift hill angle and there ya go.

It's safe to say this ride will be awesome, and I am happier than anyone that B&M broke 300 feet because I love their rides so much, but you saying it fits perfectly is just not true.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Intricks said:
Basically, we are seeing a repeat of Cedar Point. Leviathan to Behemoth is what Millennium Force is to Magnum. By using the argument of "They are too similar", then Millennium Force should never have come around because of the similarities to Magnum. Hence why that argument is invalid.
Click to expand...

Magnum also offers a different kind of ride than Millennium Force does. Magnum has that fast, rough ride that you can only expect from the old Arrow hypers, whereas MF has the current smooth steel feeling to it. You get the feel of different generations when you ride Magnum then hit up MF across the park.

These two are the same generation, same style B&M's. You can expect the same kind of ride from both of them.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Ugh....gods....i need some ruby tinted glasses badly ><

First, I basically told you to ignore the manufacturer difference and look at the layouts PURELY. Nothing more. Since everybody here just seems keen on ignoring a part of my rant, Ill say this one last time.

Layout of Magnum is basically what you expect of all hypers. Lots of **** hills. Behemoth is a hyper. What does it have? Lots of mother **** hills.

Layout of Millennium Force is basically what you expect from a giga as the intamins are the only two standing, and SD2K went for length as well (basically, IGNORE SD2k FOR THIS ARGUMENT). A few airtime hills, some over banked turns, low to ground transitions, low airtime hills is what you get mainly. Leviathan is a Giga. What is it supposed to have? A few airtime hills, low to ground transitions, im not going to **** repeat myself at this point as you basically (read hopefully) see what I am doing.

Calling an argument of "they are too similar" isnt possible, as they both offer a different kind of ride.

Now, Im going to be a smartass >:3
Since some of you are keen on grouping rides together based on manufacturers, type of ride and past experience, i shall do the same since that is obviously the only way to do this. Since Millennium Force didnt meet my ecpectations, then I305 will be an utter disappointment as well. Since ive never had a bad B&M ride, then Leviathan is sure to give me the raging hardon all fanboys/girls get when riding their favorite rides.

Gods, I feel **** stupid for even saying that last bit, but seriously. Dont use past ride experiences for comparing a Hyper to a Giga. There are different forces involved. I could compare Maverick and Top Thrill then by that logic (which you cant).

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

This is different than what Cedar Point did. Magnum and Millennium each BROKE the world record for height and speed when they were built. Cedar Point was in the coaster wars. They wanted to have the tallest and fastest coaster in the world. Therefore, when they lost the record, the regained it with a new coaster. Behemoth and Leviathan did not/will not break the record. Plus, MF and Magnum have completely different layouts. Just count the number of hills in each ride.

Besides, Canada's Wonderland could use more variety in their coasters. They need more than some vekoma clones and arrows. They could have gotten a B&M floorless or dive machine. Or an intamin accelerator. Or a GCI/GG woodie. The list goes on.

Of course, if you're getting a 300 ft coaster, publicity will increase and more people will want to come to your park. But I have a feeling that when people get off the ride, they will say, "That was alot like Behemoth."
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

And so do Behemoth and Leviathan. They each have a different layout. That is the ENTIRE point of my argument! I honestly dont see why yall on here seriously cant see it.

Apparently Im blind, dyslexic and stupid for seeing two different layouts. What the **** ever.

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Rides can give similar experiences even if they have different layouts.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I love statistics I do.

Behemoth
B&M Hyper
Built 2008
Height - 230 feet
Length - 5318 feet
Speed - 77MPH
Drop Angle - 75 degrees
Cost - 26 Million (Canadian)

Leviathan
B&M Giga
Built 2012
Height - 306 feet
Length - 5486
Speed - 92MPH
Drop Angle - 80 degrees
Cost - 28 million (US)

Magnum XL-200
Arrow Hyper Coaster
Built 1989
Height - 205 feet
Length - 5106
Speed - 72 mph
Drop angle - 60 degree
Cost - 8 million (US)

Millennium Force
Intamin Giga Coaster
Built 2000
Height - 310 feet
Length - 6595
Speed - 93 mph
Drop angle - 80 degrees
Cost - 25 million (US)

I took the first two sets from Robb's post on TPR.

Just a quick few comparisons -

Leviathan is 33% taller than Behemoth.
Millennium Force is 50% taller than Magnum.

Leviathan is 22% faster than Behemoth.
Millennium Force is 29% faster than Magnum.

Leviathan is 6% steeper than Behemoth.
Millennium Force is 33% steeper than Magnum.

Leviathan is 3% longer than Behemoth.
Millennium Force is 29% longer than Magnum.

As has been pointed out, the gap between MF and Magnum was 7 years longer, and both have different manufacturers.

Make of those stats what you will, but I don't think the "It's the same as MF and Magnum!" argument stacks up. :wink:
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^That is total crap. It's crap. It's not invalid because it isn't a one-to-one comparison. You can get off your high horse now (or Robb's high horse, rather).

^^CWL does not need any more variety in their coasters... They have a family launch, a boomerang, a hypercoaster, a small looper, an invert, a wild mouse, a traditional kiddie, a wood kiddie, a suspended kiddie, an out-and-back woodie, a standup, a powered coaster, a flying coaster, a suspended coaster, a compact woodie, and now a gigacoaster. That's way more variety than most parks. Just because they aren't all B&Ms and Intamins does not mean they don't have variety.

And seriously, even if you think it looks too much like Behemoth, you cannot honestly think they are going to ride at all the same, right? That's ignorant.
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Well, I think this looks better than the likes of I305 anyway...

I agree with it being an odd choice, but who cares? Its still a massive new coaster for the park to advertise.

And anway, this kinda behaviour is common in Canada, is it not? Is it La Ronde that has 2 inverts?
 
Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^^They have variety, yes, but not GOOD variety. Vekomas clones are nothing to write home about. B&M, Intamin, GCI, Gravity Group, Gerstlauer, Mack? Any decent coaster from them would be nice.

And yes, I think they will ride very similar. Adding 70 feet and getting rid of some camelbacks and helixes is not going to do much.
 
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