Come on then, America, what happened?
- Thread starter Ian
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Snoo
The Legend
Below are my thoughts on this election:
This is Brexit 2.0
Barack Obama was the candidate for MY generation, who grew into their teenage years with Bush. Most of us didn't like Bush so we voted in large part due to change what has been established during a promises of change.
Now we have that same thing but for the conservative, older generation within America. Most people between 18-35 did not vote for Trump.
I do genuinely fear for the minorities within this country, myself being part of that, as this was not something we wanted to occur. The real problem most likely was the Democratic Party endorsed Clinton, more of the status quo, instead of change in someone like Bernie Sanders. This was clearly a change election overall as you could tell with Trump. Had we as Democrats came out more for Sanders, I do feel he may have won the election.
I will note that the below media summerizes how most minorities, of all types, feel about this:
This is Brexit 2.0
Barack Obama was the candidate for MY generation, who grew into their teenage years with Bush. Most of us didn't like Bush so we voted in large part due to change what has been established during a promises of change.
Now we have that same thing but for the conservative, older generation within America. Most people between 18-35 did not vote for Trump.
I do genuinely fear for the minorities within this country, myself being part of that, as this was not something we wanted to occur. The real problem most likely was the Democratic Party endorsed Clinton, more of the status quo, instead of change in someone like Bernie Sanders. This was clearly a change election overall as you could tell with Trump. Had we as Democrats came out more for Sanders, I do feel he may have won the election.
I will note that the below media summerizes how most minorities, of all types, feel about this:
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I just find it hard to believe that anyone would vote for that disgusting man. He's disgusting to look at, to listen to and worst of all, when he speaks it might as well be fart sounds.
The reality is, many people just voted against Hillary, not for Trump. Many of those people would take offence to being called racist or sexist or bigoted, many of them would be baffled by the association between voting Republican and such a notion. If you're not directly suffering from, or know someone who is, the effects from Trump's vulgar perspective of the American people, then it's very hard to understand what the big deal is.
I saw someone earlier defending his locker room banter because "most guys" have done similar. Yeah, most people are disgusting misogynistic, racist, bigoted pigs. But thats not ok. And those of us saying it's not ok are baffled why the rest of you can't ****ing understand that. The world is a very different place when you see it through the eyes of others. Meanwhile, middle and upper class white people, especially men, are worried about fairness and abuse of national services that wouldn't effect them anyway.
I'm hoping that he will be good for the country in *some* regard and hope that he doesn't make life harder for those who'd undoubtably suffer under a Republican presidency regardless. But even if he turns out to be a sane, competent president, what the hell was his campaign about? And how would those who voted for him feel about such a change? Christ it just makes me feel ill.
The reality is, many people just voted against Hillary, not for Trump. Many of those people would take offence to being called racist or sexist or bigoted, many of them would be baffled by the association between voting Republican and such a notion. If you're not directly suffering from, or know someone who is, the effects from Trump's vulgar perspective of the American people, then it's very hard to understand what the big deal is.
I saw someone earlier defending his locker room banter because "most guys" have done similar. Yeah, most people are disgusting misogynistic, racist, bigoted pigs. But thats not ok. And those of us saying it's not ok are baffled why the rest of you can't ****ing understand that. The world is a very different place when you see it through the eyes of others. Meanwhile, middle and upper class white people, especially men, are worried about fairness and abuse of national services that wouldn't effect them anyway.
I'm hoping that he will be good for the country in *some* regard and hope that he doesn't make life harder for those who'd undoubtably suffer under a Republican presidency regardless. But even if he turns out to be a sane, competent president, what the hell was his campaign about? And how would those who voted for him feel about such a change? Christ it just makes me feel ill.
Snoo
The Legend
I will say the America that no one wanted to acknowledge existed is now in full view for everyone to see. Racism.. sexism.. all the isms were supported by over 50 million people to be the person who represents the country in front of the world. People think Obama brought the **** to the surface and that **** just elected one of their own to run everything as they see it.
I think half the problem is people do not like being called racist, bigots etc because they hold a different (and in my opinion, wrong) opinion. It is wrong for society to put their fingers in their ears and call people names when then somebody has an opposing opinion. Eventually people will think enough is enough and uprise. We've seen it in the U.K., now in America and it wouldn't surprise me if France follow suit next year. Politicans putting their head in the sand and expecting everybody to conform is no longer, and regrettably, tolerated in western society. People do have genuine concerns about immigration, jobs and the money in their pocket evidently more so than having a fair, open society. I'd love a society where everybody got along, without prejudice, but that will never happen. It's a by-product of free speech.
In a nutshell, we're all ****ed. But everything will be alright in the end.
In a nutshell, we're all ****ed. But everything will be alright in the end.
That video is great Snoo.
I can't comprehend it. I couldn't comprehend Brexit but this is even more black and white for me. It's not even a case of oh maybe there'll be trade deals and some other reasons, there is no reason to vote for Trump except bigotry and hatred. I can't comprehend someone wanting to take away the rights of my fellow LGBTQs, of bringing in a right hand man who thinks we need converting. I can only imagine and sympathise with how other minority groups feel today.
People talk about the lesser of two 'evils' being the choice today - Hilary is not 'evil'. Trump is evil. She might not be your ideal candidate, but she's not 'evil'. Not being what you would have picked and being a sexist, racist, homophobic rapist are two very different things.
It's a disgusting day, something that I don't think anyone with half a brain would have predicted.
What hurts again here is if the vote was only for the under 45s, Hilary would have walked it. The same with Brexit - the older, white people who have ****ed up so much that our generation has worked to fix (the financial industry, hatred and inequality etc) are now just dragging us back to square one.
Or trying to. The only glimmer of hope for me is that our generation is still good, things will still change. We'll be waiting and fighting longer than I think any of us thought we would be - we're going backwards now after Obama - but keep fighting and our generation which is good, which is more accepting and more loving, will eventually win out. If we all keep raising our kids right and putting out in to the World the right things, it will get better.
I can't comprehend it. I couldn't comprehend Brexit but this is even more black and white for me. It's not even a case of oh maybe there'll be trade deals and some other reasons, there is no reason to vote for Trump except bigotry and hatred. I can't comprehend someone wanting to take away the rights of my fellow LGBTQs, of bringing in a right hand man who thinks we need converting. I can only imagine and sympathise with how other minority groups feel today.
People talk about the lesser of two 'evils' being the choice today - Hilary is not 'evil'. Trump is evil. She might not be your ideal candidate, but she's not 'evil'. Not being what you would have picked and being a sexist, racist, homophobic rapist are two very different things.
It's a disgusting day, something that I don't think anyone with half a brain would have predicted.
What hurts again here is if the vote was only for the under 45s, Hilary would have walked it. The same with Brexit - the older, white people who have ****ed up so much that our generation has worked to fix (the financial industry, hatred and inequality etc) are now just dragging us back to square one.
Or trying to. The only glimmer of hope for me is that our generation is still good, things will still change. We'll be waiting and fighting longer than I think any of us thought we would be - we're going backwards now after Obama - but keep fighting and our generation which is good, which is more accepting and more loving, will eventually win out. If we all keep raising our kids right and putting out in to the World the right things, it will get better.
You're right, Ben, it is a generational thing. We still have people alive today who remember the olden days and can't accept that society has moved on.
I'd like to think that our generation is the transitional generation. In 30-40 years when the older generations are worm food, society will truly move on. Hopefully.
I'd like to think that our generation is the transitional generation. In 30-40 years when the older generations are worm food, society will truly move on. Hopefully.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
It seems sensible and rational and calm and collected to be like "well people do have genuine concerns about immigration" but the problem is, that kind of comment only perpetuates the false idea that there is anything genuine about the idea that immigrants are taking "native" (*cough*... white people's) jobs.
The idea that EU citizens are coming to the UK to find work, that the demand for jobs is so high that companies can offer less and less and only non-UK citizens are willing to accept those low salaries, is one thing. It sounds plausible, but there's plenty of evidence to dispute it. But at least it sounds plausible.
The idea that in the USA, immigrants are taking American jobs, is ****ing insane. It is incredibly difficult to get into America, or the UK (if you're not an EU citizen) and worst of all Australia, on a working visa. In the USA, your sponsor (your employer) has to prove that no US national could do the job as well as you. So basically, you need to be exceptionally skilled. It's costly for an employer to sponsor. It just doesn't happen willy ****ing nilly.
Lots of my American friends and their parents, many of which I'm sure voted for Trump, often comment that I should "move to the USA". Well, maybe if it was just that easy, but it's not. It's really ****ing not. Even as a spouse, my US partner needs to be earning a minimum to sponsor me AND the process itself is expensive. And when I explain this I get "well how comes all these Mexicans get in so easily?" I'm white and speak the same language, so I'm a special snowflake in their head, that's all there is to it! My useless arse is welcomed in America, but not brown people who were born there.
No one has genuine concerns about immigration. We live in countries with complicated and thorough immigration systems. The "genuine concerns" always turn out to be xenophobia.
I agree it will all be alright in the end though... Reality is, whoever is in power, in reality it's just a different set of positives and negatives. The problem, like I said in my past post, is that the minorities need more help by definition. This set of positives and negatives includes "****ing over the minorities". I don't honestly think Trump's presidency will be the end of the ****ing world like some seem to, but the most damage will be done to those with the quietest voices. Those who aren't one or more of the following will suffer more than they already would have: rich, white, cis male, straight, healthy.
Snoo
The Legend
I'd say it was more of a race thing than generational (or gender) when white millennials favoured Trump, yet older generations of different races are all very pro-Clinton?
I will note that Democrats have held the minority vote in America and held it STRONG since the 60's as Republicans were more against desegregation and Democrats were for it. We all know who won that battle and as such, most minorities, myself include, tend to lean in that direction since that time. Having shared 'progressive' values tends to help, especially with the younger Americans.
CoasterCrazy
Giga Poster
Agree with everything said so far.
Watching the election live until 6 in the morning today really made me question whether my view of the world is right or not. As I did with Brexit, I tried to put myself in the minds of the voters and try to understand the reason why this happened. Of course there are loads of reasons why this happened (even the fact that the DNC isn't completely clean...I agree with Snoo that Bernie should have been the Dem candidate), but here are a few of the reasons I came up with:
- The American political system is quite clearly broken. I don't just mean that Hillary should have won because she got more votes, but also that the way the system is set up to actively restrict change, with so many hurdles to the passage of laws, especially for Obama's last few years. Even with who I as an outsider would probably regard as the best US president in living memory, possibly ever, in change, the country's still stuck, and this massively polarises the electorate. The people want change, and four more years of who is sort of an Obama imitation candidate continually blocked by congress etc, isn't going to do it. Republicans block and water down Obamacare, then complain that it's not working.
- It's a vote against the establishment as well. I'm sure many Trump voters weren't convinced by him, but it's a binary choice, and with Bernie not on the Ballot...I can understand being fed up.
I'd probably say that a lot of people voted for Trump for the right reasons, as a lot of the problems with America that he bangs on about are actually very real and true. However, unfortunately, the way Trump intends to solve these problems is completely wrong, for example people can't see through the fact Trump IS the establishment.
It's all made me very worried, yes, but I'm actually really hopeful about the future for US-UK politics, especially if Michelle Obama decides to run. The Trump presidency won't be pretty by any means, but it will serve as a reminder to future generations of all countries never to go down that road again, just like Brexit will.
Then we can get rid of the suddenly lying, xenophobic right-wing governments in the UK and now the US who can enact genuine change.
We'll get over the age gap at some point:
https://en4news.com/2016/11/09/here...ould-look-like-if-only-millennials-had-voted/
*Drops Mic*
Watching the election live until 6 in the morning today really made me question whether my view of the world is right or not. As I did with Brexit, I tried to put myself in the minds of the voters and try to understand the reason why this happened. Of course there are loads of reasons why this happened (even the fact that the DNC isn't completely clean...I agree with Snoo that Bernie should have been the Dem candidate), but here are a few of the reasons I came up with:
- The American political system is quite clearly broken. I don't just mean that Hillary should have won because she got more votes, but also that the way the system is set up to actively restrict change, with so many hurdles to the passage of laws, especially for Obama's last few years. Even with who I as an outsider would probably regard as the best US president in living memory, possibly ever, in change, the country's still stuck, and this massively polarises the electorate. The people want change, and four more years of who is sort of an Obama imitation candidate continually blocked by congress etc, isn't going to do it. Republicans block and water down Obamacare, then complain that it's not working.
- It's a vote against the establishment as well. I'm sure many Trump voters weren't convinced by him, but it's a binary choice, and with Bernie not on the Ballot...I can understand being fed up.
I'd probably say that a lot of people voted for Trump for the right reasons, as a lot of the problems with America that he bangs on about are actually very real and true. However, unfortunately, the way Trump intends to solve these problems is completely wrong, for example people can't see through the fact Trump IS the establishment.
It's all made me very worried, yes, but I'm actually really hopeful about the future for US-UK politics, especially if Michelle Obama decides to run. The Trump presidency won't be pretty by any means, but it will serve as a reminder to future generations of all countries never to go down that road again, just like Brexit will.
Then we can get rid of the suddenly lying, xenophobic right-wing governments in the UK and now the US who can enact genuine change.
We'll get over the age gap at some point:
https://en4news.com/2016/11/09/here...ould-look-like-if-only-millennials-had-voted/
*Drops Mic*
Dave
CF Legend
The whole election was ugly from all sides from the start, Clinton was no angel but was the best of two bad options.
Best word I could find for Trump today is Demagogue. Playing to peoples fears and shouting until they get their way. Its a sad day when a misogynistic, sexist, bigoted (cannot be bothered to say racist anymore) bully gets to be the President of a country founded on 'freedom' on the basis he will limit freedom.
Best word I could find for Trump today is Demagogue. Playing to peoples fears and shouting until they get their way. Its a sad day when a misogynistic, sexist, bigoted (cannot be bothered to say racist anymore) bully gets to be the President of a country founded on 'freedom' on the basis he will limit freedom.
Smithy
Strata Poster
Answered your own question there.
This is just the white working class believing that people who are 'different' in race, religion, sexuality amongst others are to blame for their current position in the world rather than rampant globalisation and capitalism and voting accordingly. And why would they think any different if they're constantly told this is so by the media, and so when they raise these views and get rightly shouted down for them they whinge about political correctness.
Pink Cadillac
Giga Poster
Another exit poll table, but I've seen a number of people target working class.
The racism etc. is wide spread throughout all class brackets
caffeine_demon
Strata Poster
Me: so what's the name of the next first lady again?
A: Ivana Trump
Me: go ahead. Better out than in!
A: Ivana Trump
Me: go ahead. Better out than in!
caffeine_demon
Strata Poster
didn't you hear she'd changed her name? 