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Coronavirus: Impact on Theme Parks

Genuine question for those who suggest closing schools: how do you practically suggest children receiving an education if schools close down?

Online learning is not the answer for younger children. And it's still not the best answer for teenagers either. Home schooling is only an option for the minority too. Cancelling education shouldn't really be on the cards either. I honestly can't see a good solution?

I haven't followed numbers and rises closely enough, but did other countries see rises when schools opened? From what I gather, cases seem to have risen far enough after schools reopened in many countries that they can't be the main reason for the rises in my (albeit not very educated) opinion..
 
@AndrewRollercoaster Oh don't worry, Trump is a horrible leader for a plethora of other reasons; happy to take that convo offline. :)

Shifting a bit back to California, which released pretty limited allowances for amusement parks to open at ~25% capacity; amusement park industry may try a lawsuit to press the state more on expanding allowance for operation: https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-wes...ngly-against-california-theme-park-guidelines

Worth clarifying the exact way lawsuits can be used in the realm of public policy; it isn't always a "I want to do something, so I'm suing you to let me!" but rather can force a revisit of a public policy, and keep the conversation open to the exact directive. For instance, while Ohio had a plan for reopening amusement parks, they were slow to announce it, prioritizing announcement of other entertainment/points of interest venue guidance. Cedar Fair sued the state, which prompted the governor to release plans for amusement parks shortly after the suit was filed: https://blooloop.com/news/cedar-fair-kings-island-suing-ohio-reopen/

The greatest threat to parks still closed now is time - you only have so much cash on hand to manage not being open. And as we're seeing with Regal Cinema going bankrupt because of not being able to open movie theaters; businesses can only make it so far without intervention.
 
AndrewRollercoaster said:
One can use this virus to frame Trump as the worst leader ever. I think it is a total nonsense position to be honest and I think it comes from a mentality based on people who made their minds up about Trump well before the virus hit.
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No need to blame the virus. Trump was already heading into the history books as one of the worst ever US presidents before it struck.

Example poll from 2018. And another, in which even Republicans said he was the fifth worst of all time.

[Edit - Hyde] If you also want to check the presidential approval rates all the way back to 1945 ;) https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
 
JoshC. said:
Genuine question for those who suggest closing schools: how do you practically suggest children receiving an education if schools close down?

Online learning is not the answer for younger children. And it's still not the best answer for teenagers either. Home schooling is only an option for the minority too. Cancelling education shouldn't really be on the cards either. I honestly can't see a good solution?

I haven't followed numbers and rises closely enough, but did other countries see rises when schools opened? From what I gather, cases seem to have risen far enough after schools reopened in many countries that they can't be the main reason for the rises in my (albeit not very educated) opinion..
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You do realise teachers are currently legally required to provide both f2f and distance learning, due to the fact so many children are missing from class so often anyway... My teaching friends now have double the workload essentially as they have to ‘upload’ all work / classes too.

So I fail to see how distance learning can be the answer if children are isolating, but not the answer if we close schools...

The issue with closing schools is the safeguarding factor, and very little to do with education... A genuine problem that I do not know the answer to... We do not have enough social workers to make regular at home visits to every child at risk :(
 
FarleyFlavors said:
No need to blame the virus. Trump was already heading into the history books as one of the worst ever US presidents before it struck.

Example poll from 2018. And another, in which even Republicans said he was the fifth worst of all time.

[Edit - Hyde] If you also want to check the presidential approval rates all the way back to 1945 ;) https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
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I see little value in polling to be honest. They were very wrong in 2016 (twice) and last year leaving Labour in the UK with the least amount of seats in a lifetime whilst polls suggesting for months Corbyn even had a chance at becoming Prime Minister.

Several leaders from around the world RIGHT NOW are praising Trump for his international diplomacy for creating peaceful relations between Middle Eastern countries and Sudan. His team is clearly getting at least some things right. That area of the world has constantly had a massive impact on the Western World with regards to terrorism for more than 2 decades.
Personally I'd take minifying global terrorism over the risk of me or my family getting Covid 19 (my parents would be high risk).

Terrorism is a human act that can be influenced. A virus is mostly evolutionary / natural. Not so obvious to deal with I reckon. At its source would have been the best chance. It didn't happen, now everyone has to deal with the consequences. Life itself doesn't give a crap whether I live or a virus lives. It is harsh to accept but it IS reality. Someone blowing up 20 little girls in Manchester is ridiculous and I'm glad the USA now has a president to try diplomacy over sending more troops in in an area that clearly through peace will HOPEFULLY bread less insane human acts in the name of religion or misunderstanding religion or using religion as an excuse, whichever way you see it.

Could Trump have stopped (some) more people from dying of Covid 19 in the USA with implementing more stringent rules? Perhaps and every American has a right to vote for the other option in the upcoming election if that is their deciding factor. They also have a right to vote for Biden if they simply dislike Trump.

Could he have stopped it all? Don't be silly.
188 countries got this virus. Globalism and international travel is something everyone has benefited from for decades including roller coaster fans.
This is not the first virus to spread.

A lot is being learned and a solution might be close at hand through extremely clever people who should be praised to the hills if a vaccine happens.
In hindsight saying "that leader sucked because we got more Covid 19 than an another country" I think is very easy to do. We will never know if things would have been better for the USA under Hillary Clinton with regards to just that.
 
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Nicky Borrill said:
You do realise teachers are currently legally required to provide both f2f and distance learning, due to the fact so many children are missing from class so often anyway... My teaching friends now have double the workload essentially as they have to ‘upload’ all work / classes too.

So I fail to see how distance learning can be the answer if children are isolating, but not the answer if we close schools...
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No, I didn't know that was a legal requirement... Nor do I envy teachers for having to upload their work either.

I'm not convinced though. There is no way a child at the age of say, 6 or 7, can get anywhere near the same level of teaching quality with distance learning as they would with face to face learning. At a stage when they're learning to read and write, or improving upon that to a competent level, it's critical to have that face to face learning in my opinion.

Children who are isolating will of course have parents with them too who are isolating, potentially not working as a result of isolation. What is the situation if the parents have to work, and are not able to work from home? Who supervises the child? At what age do you say children can be unsupervised with internet access? All big questions with not easy answers.


Part of my job involves helping with teaching at a university, along with marking work. Pretty much all of it is distance learning. The one thing which is extremely clear is weaker students are struggling more at the moment than they would with face to face learning. Why is up for debate because there's several possible reasons. Could be because not everything was covered during A Levels, not taking exams has meant they're at a uni they will struggle at, online teaching isn't effective enough, students aren't self-motivating enough, ... Those problems will only be amplified with younger teenagers and children, where the range of abilities can be much larger, and when there's many more methods to teach.


As with everything with Covid, there has to be a balance to it. What effect would closing schools have on children's education? What knock on effects will it have on parents who may not be able to work properly as a result? Equally what effect is it having on the spread of the virus whilst they're open? If the increased transmission rate is because of schools reopening, why were other countries able to reopen them with less problems? Are areas that are seeing greater transmissions and in the 'Tier 3' levels more densely populated with schools?

I'm asking a lot of questions, and many of them don't have concrete answers, and the ones that require a lot of data. But that's the point, isn't it - there's so many factors to consider. Even if the reopening of schools and students returning to universities is the main cause for the rise in cases (which I'm unconvinced by), the idea of shutting them (again) is very radical.
 
JoshC. said:
Even if the reopening of schools and students returning to universities is the main cause for the rise in cases (which I'm unconvinced by), the idea of shutting them (again) is very radical.
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You are asking very fair questions but regarding your last point, I do agree with that but it is also quite radical to continue with the closure of many businesses.
I honestly think the Wales not being able to buy a kettle or fresh bedding thing is completely nuts.
What if your washing machine breaks and your child has an accident. It is very wrong what is going on there I think.
How is a kettle or fresh bedding not essential but a chocolate bar is? Isn't that the other way around? Why even bother with this level of control, it's never going to work.

Also a last point on the USA Covid thing:
The USA got covid 19 bad but there are many countries including the UK and Spain that have similar death rates per million population, nothing completely out of the ordinary as high and dreadfully sad as the total deaths may be. Belgium still has one of the worst rates in the western world.

Closing theme parks may be an easy decision to make in Belgium but realistically how much does it matter whilst leaving zoos and swimming pools open. RCDB lists only 11 theme parks. It is hardly going to make much difference compared to the number of zoos and swimming pools, no?
 
JoshC. said:
No, I didn't know that was a legal requirement... Nor do I envy teachers for having to upload their work either.

I'm not convinced though. There is no way a child at the age of say, 6 or 7, can get anywhere near the same level of teaching quality with distance learning as they would with face to face learning. At a stage when they're learning to read and write, or improving upon that to a competent level, it's critical to have that face to face learning in my opinion.

Children who are isolating will of course have parents with them too who are isolating, potentially not working as a result of isolation. What is the situation if the parents have to work, and are not able to work from home? Who supervises the child? At what age do you say children can be unsupervised with internet access? All big questions with not easy answers.


Part of my job involves helping with teaching at a university, along with marking work. Pretty much all of it is distance learning. The one thing which is extremely clear is weaker students are struggling more at the moment than they would with face to face learning. Why is up for debate because there's several possible reasons. Could be because not everything was covered during A Levels, not taking exams has meant they're at a uni they will struggle at, online teaching isn't effective enough, students aren't self-motivating enough, ... Those problems will only be amplified with younger teenagers and children, where the range of abilities can be much larger, and when there's many more methods to teach.


As with everything with Covid, there has to be a balance to it. What effect would closing schools have on children's education? What knock on effects will it have on parents who may not be able to work properly as a result? Equally what effect is it having on the spread of the virus whilst they're open? If the increased transmission rate is because of schools reopening, why were other countries able to reopen them with less problems? Are areas that are seeing greater transmissions and in the 'Tier 3' levels more densely populated with schools?

I'm asking a lot of questions, and many of them don't have concrete answers, and the ones that require a lot of data. But that's the point, isn't it - there's so many factors to consider. Even if the reopening of schools and students returning to universities is the main cause for the rise in cases (which I'm unconvinced by), the idea of shutting them (again) is very radical.
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You raise some very good questions, and many points that I agree with. I do not have the answers, nor does anybody else apparently.

But here is a graphic lifted from the PHE site a couple of weeks ago, it’s a little out of date now, but with more restrictions on businesses (such as hospitality) if anything I’d expect the data to be even more damning of education settings.

CC9FDCC2-EE9F-489B-8164-84E5B142606D.jpeg

My issues with our current direction are this...

Hospitality and leisure is being targeted for closures. By their own statistics the sector accounts for 5% of transmission. The effects of damaging this sector will be dire on our economy and people’s lives for years to come. That damage may never be reversed. And for what? Hardly any reduction in overall transmission.

Education accounts for 21% of transmission, probably much more now you factor in restrictions on other businesses, and recent University outbreaks. Education is extremely important, but can be delivered (to some extent at least) remotely. Considering the disruption already being caused by CV-19, would a return to remote learning for a few months really be irrecoverable? Why have the government not planned ahead, cancelled next summer’s extended holidays, and held them in the winter instead? Closing schools will have an impact on many things, will leave many obstacles to overcome, but is it really more damaging than shutting down parts of the economy? Regardless, all things considered, at least it would have a significant impact!

Edit: I went to find some more recent figures, and as expected education is a much bigger factor, and hospitality much less in recent weeks...

B2507575-4607-4170-9E71-5FFFD03E4593.jpeg
 
I’m somewhat surprised that this hasn’t been bigger news, but yesterday, the results of a study by the University of Bristol indicated that the Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine is on course to work: https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/23/oxfo...pected-and-triggers-strong-immunity-13467677/

Phase 3 trials have apparently shown that it works as expected and triggers “strong immunity” against COVID-19.

Very promising stuff; hopefully this vaccine will get approved soon so that we can begin to vaccinate the population and carve our way back to some semblance of normality.
 
Sorry for double posting, but while schools are being discussed, I thought I could offer my own opinions and experiences from lockdown.

As someone currently in Year 13 who actually did distance learning for 6 months earlier in the year, it certainly wasn’t easy for me. Prior to starting distance learning, I thought it would be far easier than it actually ended up being.

When you’re in school, one thing you really forget is that you do have a very wide support network available to you, and when that support network was made less accessible during lockdown, I did personally struggle. I did as much work as I physically could during lockdown; I did 4 hours of schoolwork each day (I actually started with 6 hours, but I eventually moved down to 4 after I was struggling to find enough work to do to effectively fill 6). However, even though I made effort to try and keep on top of my schoolwork, and my teachers seemed pleased with my progress, I still had a feeling that I was falling behind and not doing enough. I found that feeling very stressful, and I always felt like I should have been doing far more work.

For the initial part of lockdown especially, I did feel somewhat alone, as we didn’t have any online lessons and I was kind of lost once I’d finished the work our teachers had set; even though I was able to reach my teachers via email and they did always respond to me, I didn’t feel as though I was able to get quite the same level of academic support as I could in school. We did start having online lessons after May half term, which did improve things somewhat for me, but even online lessons didn’t feel quite the same as being physically in school.

So before I ramble on for too long, my basic point is; from a student’s point of view, distance learning does not work as effectively as you might expect when applied to the context of school (or at least, I found that to be the case, anyway), and the government has ruled that the risk to young people’s futures from schools being shut is greater than the risk of the virus, so they’ve deemed opening schools as a risk worth taking.

Apologies if my musings annoy you, but I thought as a student who’s actually done distance learning, I could offer a new perspective to the schools argument.
 
Matt N said:
Sorry for double posting, but while schools are being discussed, I thought I could offer my own opinions and experiences from lockdown.

As someone currently in Year 13 who actually did distance learning for 6 months earlier in the year, it certainly wasn’t easy for me. Prior to starting distance learning, I thought it would be far easier than it actually ended up being.

When you’re in school, one thing you really forget is that you do have a very wide support network available to you, and when that support network was made less accessible during lockdown, I did personally struggle. I did as much work as I physically could during lockdown; I did 4 hours of schoolwork each day (I actually started with 6 hours, but I eventually moved down to 4 after I was struggling to find enough work to do to effectively fill 6). However, even though I made effort to try and keep on top of my schoolwork, and my teachers seemed pleased with my progress, I still had a feeling that I was falling behind and not doing enough. I found that feeling very stressful, and I always felt like I should have been doing far more work.

For the initial part of lockdown especially, I did feel somewhat alone, as we didn’t have any online lessons and I was kind of lost once I’d finished the work our teachers had set; even though I was able to reach my teachers via email and they did always respond to me, I didn’t feel as though I was able to get quite the same level of academic support as I could in school. We did start having online lessons after May half term, which did improve things somewhat for me, but even online lessons didn’t feel quite the same as being physically in school.

So before I ramble on for too long, my basic point is; from a student’s point of view, distance learning does not work as effectively as you might expect when applied to the context of school (or at least, I found that to be the case, anyway), and the government has ruled that the risk to young people’s futures from schools being shut is greater than the risk of the virus, so they’ve deemed opening schools as a risk worth taking.

Apologies if my musings annoy you, but I thought as a student who’s actually done distance learning, I could offer a new perspective to the schools argument.
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No need for apologies, was a well constructed post with some good points... It’s nice to hear the point of view of another youngster. My 2 are in year 12 and year 13. My eldest found distance learning a breeze, as she’s naturally self motivated, has had a job since the age of 15, and is well suited to it. My youngest really struggled, and found himself straying too easily.

There is no doubt that distance learning has it’s problems, and there are many obstacles to overcome.

But my point was which is worse, destroying the economy so you have no prospects once your education is done, whilst having very little effect on transmission rates, or distance learning for a few months, catching up when you can, and having a much bigger impact on transmission rates. ??‍♂️ Of course this massively oversimplifies the situation, but imo that’s the basic choice we face, and we’re choosing the wrong option.
 
Matt N said:
I’m somewhat surprised that this hasn’t been bigger news, but yesterday, the results of a study by the University of Bristol indicated that the Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine is on course to work: https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/23/oxfo...pected-and-triggers-strong-immunity-13467677/

Phase 3 trials have apparently shown that it works as expected and triggers “strong immunity” against COVID-19.

Very promising stuff; hopefully this vaccine will get approved soon so that we can begin to vaccinate the population and carve our way back to some semblance of normality.
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Then there’s this... Seems plans are being put in places to vaccinate NHS staff BEFORE Christmas with the Oxford / AstraZeneca vaccine...

www.dailymail.co.uk

At last! NHS workers are 'set to get a Covid vaccine in weeks'

An email sent by Glen Burley, chief executive of George Eliot Hospital NHS Trust, in Warwickshire, reveals the Health Service is preparing for a national vaccination programme before Christmas.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Looks like the forthcoming results of stage 3 trials are expected to be very positive!
 
I'm glad we are getting closer to a vaccine and I hope that is definitely going to happen.

At the same time I am very concerned with the turn the leaders have taken in the UK with what I think are very draconian rules.

Look at the 5 tier thing in Scotland for example. They constantly restrict liberties but up until a "lockdown" that STILL includes schools to open.
I don't get it. I still think it is blatantly obvious most of this second wave coincided with schools re-opening and students mingling at universities, unions and halls of residence.
The Wales necessary products thing is totally wacko. Some people have defended saying it is to give smaller shops a chance. WHICH smaller shops? I've been to Wales, it is very much like England in many places. Only supermarkets exist, apart from a few souvenir shops maybe!

The micro managing of this virus makes no sense to me. It seems to me it is based on a false rule that it was ever under control on a macro level. It was never under control at all.

All these businesses, including theme parks, added so many modifications over the summer to try to adapt to the virus, only now to be told no one can come to you.
Pretty poor show.

If there is still a "threat" in 6 months time even with a vaccine, I sincerely hope none of this wacko carry on continues. If we have to wear masks and socially distance for a few years so be it, but businesses need to open. There's no point educating a whole generation into a society where there are no jobs.
 
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AndrewRollercoaster said:
I'm glad we are getting closer to a vaccine and I hope that is definitely going to happen.

At the same time I am very concerned with the turn the leaders have taken in the UK with what I think are very draconian rules.

Look at the 5 tier thing in Scotland for example. They constantly restrict liberties but up until a "lockdown" that STILL includes schools to open.
I don't get it. I still think it is blatantly obvious most of this second wave coincided with schools re-opening and students mingling at universities, unions and halls of residence.
The Wales necessary products thing is totally wacko. Some people have defended saying it is to give smaller shops a chance. WHICH smaller shops? I've been to Wales, it is very much like England in many places. Only supermarkets exist, apart from a few souvenir shops maybe!

The micro managing of this virus makes no sense to me. It seems to me it is based on a false rule that it was ever under control on a macro level. It was never under control at all.

All these businesses, including theme parks, added so many modifications over the summer to try to adapt to the virus, only now to be told no one can come to you.
Pretty poor show.

If there is still a "threat" in 6 months time even with a vaccine, I sincerely hope none of this wacko carry on continues. If we have to wear masks and socially distance for a few years so be it, but businesses need to open. There's no point educating a whole generation into a society where there are no jobs.
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“Which small shops”

The small shops that were opened up in June and led to precisely “ZERO” rise in infections, but have now been ordered to close!!

It’s starting to make my blood boil...
 
Anyone hoping to go to Phantasialand or Europa Park this winter may want to put their plans on hold.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321352204230533121

The proposed German restrictions, which would take effect Nov. 4 and remain in force until the end of the month, include:
  • People will only be allowed outside with members of their own household and one other household. The restriction would be binding and violations would carry penalties
  • Citizens are asked to refrain from private travel and visits, including to relatives; hotel accommodation will be restricted to non-tourist purposes
  • All leisure institutions and facilities, such as gyms, swimming pools, theaters, opera houses, concert venues, fairs, cinemas and leisure parks will be closed
  • Restaurants, bars, nightclubs and similar establishments will be closed
  • Schools and daycare centers will stay open, as well as supermarkets and hairdressing salons, under existing hygiene regulations
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I'm guessing Phantasialand will cancel Wintertraum completely.

Still surprised to see Blackpool Pleasure Beach open with all the restrictions and tier 3 malarkey. Perhaps it is just for furlough staffing reasons. No idea. The weather has been terrible last few weeks too.

Most other UK parks only have one or two weekends left.
 
Theme parks in france will also close this weekend with a second kind-of quarantine is starting from Saturday morning to December 1st
 
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