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Efteling | Baron 1898 | B&M Dive Coaster

Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

I don't think anybody's enclosed a B&M yet, but I'll revoke my previous statement having not been there yet. Keeping it low and hidden would be nice. Maybe the mine shaft structure like Sue suggested, though I'm not sure a B&M lift can get steep enough for it to climb the side and look realistic. Worse comes to worse it's a 45-degree-ish incline into the mine shaft, it holds you, and drops you into a structure. In which case Merlin black would look nice.

As for layout, I feel like anything a wing coaster can do a Krake-sized dive coaster can do. Immelmanns are the only thing we've really seen, but there's really no reason why we can't split said Immelmann up by parts to make more elements. An Immelmann is essentially a half loop and a dive loop. Thinking RCT3, you could make full loops (like Wild Eagle or Thunderbird), giant flat spins (Wild Eagle or Swarm), or dive loops (Flying Over the Rainforest). I also feel like a zero-g roll would be fine if paced right, as well as a drawn out inline roll, maybe heartline it to ease stress on the trains.

How confirmed is the mine theme, though? It seems out of place for a fairy tale-themed park. :/
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

2012Jarrett said:
I don't think anybody's enclosed a B&M yet, but I'll revoke my previous statement having not been there yet. Keeping it low and hidden would be nice. Maybe the mine shaft structure like Sue suggested, though I'm not sure a B&M lift can get steep enough for it to climb the side and look realistic. Worse comes to worse it's a 45-degree-ish incline into the mine shaft, it holds you, and drops you into a structure. In which case Merlin black would look nice.

As for layout, I feel like anything a wing coaster can do a Krake-sized dive coaster can do. Immelmanns are the only thing we've really seen, but there's really no reason why we can't split said Immelmann up by parts to make more elements. An Immelmann is essentially a half loop and a dive loop. Thinking RCT3, you could make full loops (like Wild Eagle or Thunderbird), giant flat spins (Wild Eagle or Swarm), or dive loops (Flying Over the Rainforest). I also feel like a zero-g roll would be fine if paced right, as well as a drawn out inline roll, maybe heartline it to ease stress on the trains.

How confirmed is the mine theme, though? It seems out of place for a fairy tale-themed park. :/
Click to expand...

Hey there. In the legal permit, wich is public so anyone can see the permit, is a line wich said: Minetheme. There are pictures of it on several dutch fan websites.

Also, there is a huge update with lots of pictures. How can i upload those? Can i place a deeplink?

Cheers!
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

^ Don't worry, there's plenty of posts like that which make no sense at all from people who really don't understand the themed entertainment market.

If you direct message the link to me, I can put it on for you?
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

I have read this discussion from page one. I must say, some interesting opinions. It is all a matter of taste. I understand this forum is about coasters, and a as coasterfan Efteling is not the place to be. Efteling has other qualities. I live only 8 kilometers from the Efteling. (so don't blame my bad english) I am 35 now, I grew up with the park. Seasonpassholder for many years. You can almost call me an insider ;)
I will not make friends, when I say I partly agree with Joshua, saying the DM does not fit in the park. One must not judge the Efteling about it's coasters. Efteling is about the fairytale, experiencing a dream. It;s about it's beauty, in summer and winter. Every detail. The Python is a very old coaster, it has it's own history. In that time Python was the biggest, fastest, greatest coaster of Europe. You don't just break that down. Efteling combines it's history with renewing things, and does a pretty good job. The part I disagree with Joshua is his complaint about the management. The new manager does not build anything Joshua, without permission of the board of commissionaires. They guard the identity of the park, no worries. The theming will be on-Efteling, it will NOT be an ordinary dive coaster. Cost coaster: 12 million, theming: 6 million. Imagine that. Story is about mineworkers. Colors of the coaster light brown/ dark green (traditional Efteling). They are going fast, as the weather was good the past weeks, expecting the ride fully operational may 2015. Opening is set for 1th of July. Judge the ride after it's done. It wont't be very thrilling as it is only a 37m drop.
Hartenhof is not canceled, but set for 2020 (70th anniversary). After Hoogmoed (name of the DM) there will be another nice project for 2018 and some small things.
For all the coaster critics: A themepark is more than only rollercoasters. I can hardly believe people cannot appreciate the beauty Efteling has to offers. As a familypark Efteling will never build Europe's highest, fastest, greatest thrill ride. If they wanted it, I'll tell you there would be. With the money spent on Vliegende Hollander they could have built Europe's finest, fastest, highest whatever thrill they wanted, which also attract other kind of people to the park. Efteling does a good job not make it's head crazy by the thrill rides Europark or Walibi come up with. They don't need these to be unique.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

I've never been to Efteling, so if anything I say sounds really ignorant or I miss important details, cut me a bit of slack. Any opinions/ideas I have are based of things I've heard from other people, both in this discussion and other topics.

So generally, Efteling gets recognition for its atmosphere and theming, rather than having high quality thrill rides. That's great, and having a good atmosphere is an important part of any park. Most people here on the forums seem to recognize and appreciate the great atmosphere the park has become known for. But if this atmosphere and magical, fairy-tale like qualities can be retained, why not add a large coaster?

For those who say that a Dive Machine isn't a good fit for the park, what part of the new coaster seems out of place? Is the problem the idea of riding a full scale coaster in such a magical environment? Would getting onto a large B&M kill the atmosphere, or could good theming preserve the magical feel the park has?

Alternatively, does the worry come from how this new coaster will effect the aesthetics of the park? I would assume that a massive Dive Machine dominating the skyline would seem very out of place at a park like Efteling. But what if something similar to Oblivion was undertaken, and through either tunneling or intensive theming, the ride was hidden from view? Would the ride fit better in the park if it was hidden away and didn't change the area around it too much?


Basically, is the problem the ride's appearance, or is it something that just feels wrong for the park? For either one of these, is there any amount of theming that could alleviate the potential problems?

Personally, (speaking with no experience whatsoever), I would think that if the ride is hidden from the skyline and themed enough to keep the atmosphere, that nothing but good would come from its addition. But I've never been there and felt the atmosphere, so maybe I'm wrong.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

I fully agree with that Hobbes. It will be themed and it won;t show off in the park that much as they only build 30 meters in the sky, the other 7,5 meter go in the ground (tunnel). It will not effect the skyline in a negative way. Actually here nobody is against the DM. Everybody is exited, as their was a need for a good thrill ride. With its big attractions, many nature, large lakes and rich History the park remains competitive, but not following. Efteling is and stays unique and never means to build higher larger faster or better. Also not with this coaster.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

Not sure whats going on here since the image is clearly photoshopped (I mean the drop goes through that crane) but its popped up on some dutch news site. Make of it what you will.

128084_gallery.jpg


Source: http://www.vijfzintuigen.nl/nieuws/5085 ... ker-bekend
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

It's a fan made image where they've taken a current construction image and then added in the incorrect track.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

^ This. The track style is wrong, and the park confirmed the ride will be taller than that image, with a height of 37 metres.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

I just wanted to add to this whole Efteling isn't for coasters talk.

Efteling is massively overrated on CF. Every community has its favourites, this isn't a bad thing.

Efteling is an old, well attended, established and loved park. There's no denying that it is a the higher quality game player. But people talk about the place as though its Disneyland. There are coasters at Efteling - coasters that do not subscribe to the Disney philosophy of hiding shameful hardware behind magic and passing it off as a space ship or mine cart. They are coasters for the sake of coasters - more traditionally amusement rides about physical movement than story telling.

Joris is not a story telling experience where the physical layout of the ride has anything to do with telling story, nor was it intended to do that. Disney coasters, regardless of quality or success in the end product, try to do that. Even California Screamin. That ride is literally using wooden coasters as a pop culture reference for a theme.

Unfortunately my experience of Efteling was much alike my visit to Europa, I didn't have the time to ride everything I wanted to go on and coasters come first and the parks were busy. Why do creds come first? Because they just do. Even the best non coasters in the world, even my favourite non coasters, do not come close to the enjoyment attained from MOST roller coasters, even not so great ones. And on a first visit to a park, I highly doubt the majority of you, if pressed for time, would seriously forgo any of the parks coasters to ride a boat ride with pretty scenery. Be realistic.

Let's not pretend that Joris or the water coaster are not Efteling's main events in the same way Space Mountain or Big Thunder or Everest are Disney's.

B&M for Efteling is weird, but this park is weird. Like John was telling me they spend money and just do stuff in weird ways that really don't seem to make much sense or reflect the wider industry.

I would not be surprised at all if, whilst themed substantially, the majority of this coaster is very much a shameless coaster and an abstract experience, not even Mystery Mine or Fluch level. And that is perfectly OK - without theming, Fluch and MM would fall short. Without theming, the Efteling water coaster falls short. Joris could exist theme free happily, on the other hand. Efteling can do both surprising well. What will be will be and it'll be interesting at the very least, though unlikely world-class in its own right.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

^ Isn't it down to personal preference though? For me, "creds" don't always come first.
Efteling spends a lot of money but you can really see where it goes. The Hartenhof Restaurant looks fantastic and that cost a fortune, but there's so much detail in the theming above you.

I don't think it's as good as Disney, no way. Like, not even close in my opinion. But in my opinion coasters don't have to be hidden like at Disney parks, and you can still tell a story with the track visible. I mean the Smiler's track has a purpose in the story, however I'm not saying it's story is great. But I really don't think Efteling's coasters are awful. Flying Dutchman and Joris and de Draak aren't, that's for sure. I'm looking forward to riding the dive coaster next year, I think it'll be fun and that's what counts.
 
Re: Efteling to get B&M Dive Coaster for 2015!

I also disagree that creds always come first. To me, the rides that interest me the most come first when pressed for time. Sometimes (most of the times), those are creds. But in Phantasialand for example, Mystery Castle had the priority over some of the coasters. In Efteling, the dark rides are more important to me than the creds. In Europa park for example, I definitely prioritize the creds. Depends on the park to me.

And I can't comment on the Disney thing, since I haven't been to one yet, but from almost ALL people I've spoken that visited both Disneyland Paris and Efteling, highly prefer the last.
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

Joey's right. Creds ALWAYS come before anything else. If you disagree you're quite simply wrong. I would NEVER turn down a cred for something else, that's just plain idiocy.
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

That's not really what I said, Darren, and let's not think I would rather get a cloned kiddy cred over a high quality dark ride, here. I'm talking substantial coasters. Yeah its preference, but most people, enthusiasts or otherwise.
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

Efteling doesn't really have the coasters to fit a busy day demand either, especially when its called Bob (that had a 45 minute queue when I visited in February, and the rest of the park was dead)

This should hopefully help that issue out a little bit...

Creds do come first, then you know that next time you don't have to bother with them and whore out the fantastic dark rides instead...
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

Joey said:
That's not really what I said, Darren, and let's not think I would rather get a cloned kiddy cred over a high quality dark ride, here. I'm talking substantial coasters. Yeah its preference, but most people, enthusiasts or otherwise.
Click to expand...

You'd turn down a cred for a dark ride?

0eccfcfb756f47911fdbfea74b741c70_zps5516f0f0.jpg
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

Not usually, but at Efteling yeah. Fatal Morgana and Dream Flight are as much the parks signature rides as Joris and Flying Dutchman (which, let's face it, is more dark ride than coaster. And what coaster there is, is pants).

Maybe the first time I went, I didn't think like that. But as a return visitor I would happily bypass Python for the dark rides.
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

FABA Morgana is fierce, and Villa Volta <3

I like Efteling. It's so over-rated on here, but, it is really good.

Yay that they're getting a cred, there'll be four for me now when I go back.

And I've got the old Woodie, excluse <3
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

I'll never understand the term "overrated". You think it's overrated because you didn't like it as much as some other people do?
 
Re: Efteling | unknown | B&M Dive Coaster

Well, yeah. That's the definition of overrated. You've got it pretty much nailed.

Why is your username an STD by the way?
 
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