NEMESIS: SUB-TERRA [Alton 2012]
- Thread starter Ollie
- Start date
My ten-year-old, somewhat "sensitive", nephew went on it yesterday. The BBFC have deemed it too scary for him to ride, but, with trepidation and a bit of cajoling from his dad, he decided to brave it out and give it a go. Opinion?
"You go in and there's an egg and then you go down and up again and I think you see the egg again and it's broken and some air and water go on you and it's not scary and then you go out. I thought after you went out you would go to a proper ride."
Alton were running some kind of exit poll asking riders what they thought of the new attraction.
Me: What did you tell them?
Nephew: I told 'em the truth, Uncle Gav. It was proper s**t, that was!
Apparently the word "s**t" was the most prolific word being used by most people being asked their opinions while exiting the ride.
"You go in and there's an egg and then you go down and up again and I think you see the egg again and it's broken and some air and water go on you and it's not scary and then you go out. I thought after you went out you would go to a proper ride."
Alton were running some kind of exit poll asking riders what they thought of the new attraction.
Me: What did you tell them?
Nephew: I told 'em the truth, Uncle Gav. It was proper s**t, that was!
Apparently the word "s**t" was the most prolific word being used by most people being asked their opinions while exiting the ride.
T0M
Hyper Poster
They've ballsed up on this big time. Their scrimping and rushing will be their undoing unless they learn.
They made a reasonable effort with The Swarm's theming, but Merlin display more signs of considering artistic direction to be unimportant than they do regarding it a significant part of an experience.
That's not to mention the ride system was probably cost them £400,000 at most.
They made a reasonable effort with The Swarm's theming, but Merlin display more signs of considering artistic direction to be unimportant than they do regarding it a significant part of an experience.
That's not to mention the ride system was probably cost them £400,000 at most.
Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
Apparently further improvements are (hopefully) going to be implemented over the next week, focusing on building up the story part of the thing...
What I find interesting is how enthusiasts seem to be clamouring for animatronics and other things like that, when isn't one of the ideas of producing fear being the unknown and the person's imagination is much more productive of fear than anything you can see?
I can see why they did certain things rather simply, because often the simpler things work better... Indeed, what are the odds that if there was an animatronic in the pit it would be either a) look awful or b) never work properly... And then that would get complaints as well... I like how they used the effects to represent certain things, and I'm certain the leg ticklers produced more screams than the actual drop did...
It's nowhere near being perfect, and also it might depend on who you end up riding with in the overall group of 40. My second ride included a massive group of girls (who screamed as they exited the first lift, setting the mood for the rest of it) and a couple of Japanese kids, who were hilarious...
It's definitely a ride which won't please everyone (as been proven), but it might well do a Thirteen and eventually find a niche place within the ride line up at Towers once everyone is over the fact that it's not what they imagined it to be...
What I find interesting is how enthusiasts seem to be clamouring for animatronics and other things like that, when isn't one of the ideas of producing fear being the unknown and the person's imagination is much more productive of fear than anything you can see?
I can see why they did certain things rather simply, because often the simpler things work better... Indeed, what are the odds that if there was an animatronic in the pit it would be either a) look awful or b) never work properly... And then that would get complaints as well... I like how they used the effects to represent certain things, and I'm certain the leg ticklers produced more screams than the actual drop did...
It's nowhere near being perfect, and also it might depend on who you end up riding with in the overall group of 40. My second ride included a massive group of girls (who screamed as they exited the first lift, setting the mood for the rest of it) and a couple of Japanese kids, who were hilarious...
It's definitely a ride which won't please everyone (as been proven), but it might well do a Thirteen and eventually find a niche place within the ride line up at Towers once everyone is over the fact that it's not what they imagined it to be...
So are the leg ticklers the only effect on the vehicle? There should be two more effects mounted on the seats (as well as the water and air from the front). So it looks like Alton have screwed up in the sense that they have let the ride open and the first reviews come in, but not got the ride fully ready.
I think Sub Terra is a little shorter actually, but it's marginal. Blackpool Extremis has 20 seats just like all the other Dungeons, you must have been so excited to ride that you didn't notice the other 10 people!
I suppose the lighter carriage might mean it is slowed quicker in the brakes. It probably does travel at the 'gentle speed' for longer at Alton. Of course the thing that actually stops the ride is shock absorbers. You can never actually stop anything in magnetic brakes. That's the same with all the towers.
Tom G said:
I think Sub Terra is a little shorter actually, but it's marginal. Blackpool Extremis has 20 seats just like all the other Dungeons, you must have been so excited to ride that you didn't notice the other 10 people!
I suppose the lighter carriage might mean it is slowed quicker in the brakes. It probably does travel at the 'gentle speed' for longer at Alton. Of course the thing that actually stops the ride is shock absorbers. You can never actually stop anything in magnetic brakes. That's the same with all the towers.
When I rode yesterday there were the leg-ticklers, fingers in the back and water/mist jets.costar said:
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Right, Sub-Terra... yeah... it's ****. Like... really ****. I had read the comments on here about it, but I'm generally quite open minded about things like this, so thought I'd give it a fighting chance.
We queued for about 20mins for it (the queue seemed to move quite quickly) and handed in our bags and were led into the little holding bay. So far so good. Then it was into a fake lift, which was insanely unconvincing. I reckon I can get a more realistic lift sensation by just lowering this office-chair I'm sat on right now. :roll:
Anyway, I figured the actual ride might redeem this and was surprised by how good the room looked with the four gondolas around the central egg-monitoring-thing. Then the show started and it just was loud and flashy with no real sense of what was going on (maybe this was the point?) and then the cars dropped. I honestly, genuinely, thought that it was just the pre-drop. The effects came on in the bottom, then we were lifted back up and 'ordered' to run out of the room. Into another fake lift (this one was better than the previous one) and then rushed out to the bag collection area.
That was it. And it sucked.
I actually like Thirteen. I think it was marked wrong, but I still enjoy riding it (bar the trims on the first drop maybe). I think it's fun, smooth, interesting and the drop section is kinda neat. It works really well with the backwards section and you don't really need much understanding of the story of the ride to enjoy it. Thirteen seems to be generally disliked (not hated), so I was hoping that Sub-Terra might actually be alright. However Sub-Terra has two problems, the first of which is the story. The queue moves quite quickly, so you don't really ever get a proper chance to watch/listen to all the videos and truly understand the story. When we got in the lift, the group I was with (no enthusiasts and no-one knew anything about Sub-Terra beforehand) were asking where we were going and what the idea of the ride was. Now I know what the story is and I still didn't manage to understand it fully from the queue, so they didn't stand a chance. The second problem was the drop. The egg room looks good, but the drop is just too small to really feel like the ride. I honestly think the pre-drop on Thirteen is better and I can fully understand why the guys/girls in my group were asking "is that it?" when the restraints opened.
Overall, I think it's incredibly sub-par and really quite a terrable ride (Fnar). I agree that it would have worked really well as a build up to Nemesis, but I don't know if the stories would really work together. It's worth riding to tick it off, but I really wouldn't bother re-riding it.
If I had to find a 'best' bit, I did like the fat/big solider man who was patrolling the queue. He did a very good job of being funny/serious, but sadly that was just about the only highlight.
pitchnoir
Mega Poster
Hey peeps,
me and the misses trecked to the towers last week and obviously had to try sub terra ( i do have to point out though at this stage i hadnt red anything on the ride)
so we waited until it was our turn and entered the first lift and i admit pretty meh and then entered the main show oom itself and by en-large was pretty well done at this point i noticed (and so did my misses) that it was a drop ride and she hates them so we skipped ( at this point i admit i did re que up to actually have a go) and waited by the second lift while accompanied by a ride op, the misses asked what will happen and i took a total stab in the dark what it was and the ride op agreed that it was basically people have stolen the egg for testing the general public view and then nemisis finds out and drags you down which i admit is a good concept but found not to be well portrayed in the ride itself.
for what its worth as stated before worth ticking off but for how half arsed it is not worth a second go.
me and the misses trecked to the towers last week and obviously had to try sub terra ( i do have to point out though at this stage i hadnt red anything on the ride)
so we waited until it was our turn and entered the first lift and i admit pretty meh and then entered the main show oom itself and by en-large was pretty well done at this point i noticed (and so did my misses) that it was a drop ride and she hates them so we skipped ( at this point i admit i did re que up to actually have a go) and waited by the second lift while accompanied by a ride op, the misses asked what will happen and i took a total stab in the dark what it was and the ride op agreed that it was basically people have stolen the egg for testing the general public view and then nemisis finds out and drags you down which i admit is a good concept but found not to be well portrayed in the ride itself.
for what its worth as stated before worth ticking off but for how half arsed it is not worth a second go.
Went today.
Its not great but its not the worst ride ever.
The whole idea is great its just badly done and feels really rushed. The drop did make me jump as I was not ready for it but then you just get water sprayed at you things touch the back of your legs and things get rammed into your back. Same as they do on the Marvel show.
The lift at the end is well done but you just don't have a clue whats going on. At no point did anyone say a creature is after you or anything you just have to imagine it is.
But why did they not just put some screens or something in the lifts at the start to make you think you are moving.
So yeah, great idea bad execution. And tbh it does not matter what they add to it they cannot change the whole system. Real big shame.
Its not great but its not the worst ride ever.
The whole idea is great its just badly done and feels really rushed. The drop did make me jump as I was not ready for it but then you just get water sprayed at you things touch the back of your legs and things get rammed into your back. Same as they do on the Marvel show.
The lift at the end is well done but you just don't have a clue whats going on. At no point did anyone say a creature is after you or anything you just have to imagine it is.
But why did they not just put some screens or something in the lifts at the start to make you think you are moving.
So yeah, great idea bad execution. And tbh it does not matter what they add to it they cannot change the whole system. Real big shame.
Mark
Strata Poster
My two-pennies... [May contain spoilers]
I look at Sub-Terra as being a little like Hex in the sense that it is more about the storytelling and so on. It isn't all about the ride experience. However, therein lies the biggest flaw. In the queueline you are given very little to go on. They show you a little past documentation of the Nemesis and briefly mention that civilians are now allowed to visit the site - although tbh, it doesn't make that point very clearly.
You get to the ride and the actor-like ride-ops rush you into a formation ready to board a lift with lots of military-esque gusto, barking orders and generally getting away with being nigh on rude to people but tbh, there was no real explanation as to why. I thought perhaps more would be revealed as you move on...
However, it never is. You get on the main ride and it rushes through the whole experience so quickly that you have absolutely no time at all to register what is going on. I guess this might be because they want it to add to the drama and confusion perhaps? As with a lot of ride themes, something goes 'wrong' and all hell breaks loose. When it does it is very hard to tell what the heck is going on. Everyone is screaming and so on as the various effects do their trick but I STILL didn't actually know what the story is and then the next thing you know, you are being rushed off the ride itself and into an exit lift. Only then does the story become slightly clearer as the Nemesis is after you.
Like I say. I think of this a little like Hex. A story based attraction that explains a legend and a throws the ride into the experience. At least with Hex the reasoning behind it all is clear, mainly due to the build up in the queue and the various pre-show rooms. It is almost like they wanted to replicate that kind of experience here but also wanted to keep the queues and overall ride time down and therefore they want you through it as quick as possible. Hex as an attraction does take quite some time to get through, even without a queue so I guess it is understandable but it does have a clear outlining story that is understandable.
Sub-Terra rushes you through the whole experience so quickly that you don't have any time to register what the heck is going on, why you are there and what the story is... Thats why, when you get out and you are getting your bags you just feel incredibly cheated. It is all such a jumbled mess that you didn't have a clue what just went on... And yes, I heard non-enthusiast type folk making similar comments.
The thing is, and I could be off-base with this, but I thought the whole point of Sub-Terra was to better or further explain the Nemesis legend. Apart from the name of the ride and a brief mention in the queueline (its actually a clip of the original promo video with the scientist and woman reading the book) there is very little that ties this to Nemesis at all.
Overall I think the concept was a very good one. I would even go so far as to say that it has the potential to be fantastic. Everything looks the part and the fundemental stuff is there. It is like an action film that has been edited down to only the final action sequence. (Which in theory sounds like a reasonable notion, considering some of the action movies out there
) It is just that the 'pacing' is all off. As I say, the fundemental stuff is there but the story is lacking and rushed which is detrimental to the overall experience. I agree with Marc that they can't change the ride system itself, however, they could make the overall experience far better with a little more explanation in the queue-line videos and perhaps an extra video when you are waiting to board the first lift perhaps. As it stands, it is a poor attempt at a sensory experience, but adjustments could be made to make it a whole lot better...
I kind of like it because I can see where they trying to go with it and I appreciate the issues they have to contend with. It is not an awful attraction. It is mildly enjoyable. Whether you will ever wish to re-ride is another matter though.
I look at Sub-Terra as being a little like Hex in the sense that it is more about the storytelling and so on. It isn't all about the ride experience. However, therein lies the biggest flaw. In the queueline you are given very little to go on. They show you a little past documentation of the Nemesis and briefly mention that civilians are now allowed to visit the site - although tbh, it doesn't make that point very clearly.
You get to the ride and the actor-like ride-ops rush you into a formation ready to board a lift with lots of military-esque gusto, barking orders and generally getting away with being nigh on rude to people but tbh, there was no real explanation as to why. I thought perhaps more would be revealed as you move on...
However, it never is. You get on the main ride and it rushes through the whole experience so quickly that you have absolutely no time at all to register what is going on. I guess this might be because they want it to add to the drama and confusion perhaps? As with a lot of ride themes, something goes 'wrong' and all hell breaks loose. When it does it is very hard to tell what the heck is going on. Everyone is screaming and so on as the various effects do their trick but I STILL didn't actually know what the story is and then the next thing you know, you are being rushed off the ride itself and into an exit lift. Only then does the story become slightly clearer as the Nemesis is after you.
Like I say. I think of this a little like Hex. A story based attraction that explains a legend and a throws the ride into the experience. At least with Hex the reasoning behind it all is clear, mainly due to the build up in the queue and the various pre-show rooms. It is almost like they wanted to replicate that kind of experience here but also wanted to keep the queues and overall ride time down and therefore they want you through it as quick as possible. Hex as an attraction does take quite some time to get through, even without a queue so I guess it is understandable but it does have a clear outlining story that is understandable.
Sub-Terra rushes you through the whole experience so quickly that you don't have any time to register what the heck is going on, why you are there and what the story is... Thats why, when you get out and you are getting your bags you just feel incredibly cheated. It is all such a jumbled mess that you didn't have a clue what just went on... And yes, I heard non-enthusiast type folk making similar comments.
The thing is, and I could be off-base with this, but I thought the whole point of Sub-Terra was to better or further explain the Nemesis legend. Apart from the name of the ride and a brief mention in the queueline (its actually a clip of the original promo video with the scientist and woman reading the book) there is very little that ties this to Nemesis at all.
Overall I think the concept was a very good one. I would even go so far as to say that it has the potential to be fantastic. Everything looks the part and the fundemental stuff is there. It is like an action film that has been edited down to only the final action sequence. (Which in theory sounds like a reasonable notion, considering some of the action movies out there
) It is just that the 'pacing' is all off. As I say, the fundemental stuff is there but the story is lacking and rushed which is detrimental to the overall experience. I agree with Marc that they can't change the ride system itself, however, they could make the overall experience far better with a little more explanation in the queue-line videos and perhaps an extra video when you are waiting to board the first lift perhaps. As it stands, it is a poor attempt at a sensory experience, but adjustments could be made to make it a whole lot better...I kind of like it because I can see where they trying to go with it and I appreciate the issues they have to contend with. It is not an awful attraction. It is mildly enjoyable. Whether you will ever wish to re-ride is another matter though.
With the added effects, it now feels like you're in a car wash.
Down, pre-wash, "oops, sorry G'vner, I poked you in the back with me broom handle", leg washing, rinse, blow dry and up.
Do you know what they've done? They got it in the wrong order (and missed a room). You can see the nervousness of people as the enter the ride and aren't sure what to expect. The first lift doesn't really convince enough, but you can see people are a bit worried as the sit down "WTF is going on type of stuff". The ride happens (and it's a bit of a shock, but it's all so brief), then you're in the lift and out. The second lift people seem to quite like and this is the height of the ride experience (IMO).
However, what they should have done was had the "egg room" as a walk around a brief explanation, followed by a power failure maybe (people hate being stood in the dark) and the egg has hatched. THEN you head into the lift to escape and have all the banging, wall collapsing "attack". The lift fails, and the crew rush you into an emergency elevator system (the drop ride) and that stuff happens. They get you up and out after that. The tension build, I think, would work much better. You'd have a much greater feeling of being chased and the tension would build better. The second lift really does get you in the mood, but then nothing happens leaving you feeling disappointed.
I understand that the ride is in a limited space and they've jammed in what they could, but it's just not well thought through.
Martyn, we're still waiting for all the additional effects on 13 that people said were coming to make it into a good ride.
Down, pre-wash, "oops, sorry G'vner, I poked you in the back with me broom handle", leg washing, rinse, blow dry and up.
Do you know what they've done? They got it in the wrong order (and missed a room). You can see the nervousness of people as the enter the ride and aren't sure what to expect. The first lift doesn't really convince enough, but you can see people are a bit worried as the sit down "WTF is going on type of stuff". The ride happens (and it's a bit of a shock, but it's all so brief), then you're in the lift and out. The second lift people seem to quite like and this is the height of the ride experience (IMO).
However, what they should have done was had the "egg room" as a walk around a brief explanation, followed by a power failure maybe (people hate being stood in the dark) and the egg has hatched. THEN you head into the lift to escape and have all the banging, wall collapsing "attack". The lift fails, and the crew rush you into an emergency elevator system (the drop ride) and that stuff happens. They get you up and out after that. The tension build, I think, would work much better. You'd have a much greater feeling of being chased and the tension would build better. The second lift really does get you in the mood, but then nothing happens leaving you feeling disappointed.
I understand that the ride is in a limited space and they've jammed in what they could, but it's just not well thought through.
Martyn, we're still waiting for all the additional effects on 13 that people said were coming to make it into a good ride.