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NEMESIS: SUB-TERRA [Alton 2012]

I fail to see how this is that bad a ride.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's about the same height as Detonator, which isn't too bad. So it's like a themed Detonator with angry men shouting at you? What's to hate?
 
So... If this was the pre-show for the actual Nemesis coaster, could that make it good?

I mean the ride's backstory would need an update to accommodate, but that sounds like it would have been a better idea...
 
^^ No idea where you read that, but it's bollocks. It's about 100 feet shorter than Detonator. It's basically "frog hopper" height.

And as for the "it wasn't all ready" argument? Still waiting for all those amazing effects in the backwards section of Th13teen that so many people were convinced were yet to come.
 
Judging from the masses of negative reviews, I'd hazard a guess the marketing has been a huge success (or people are gullible). Worrying that members of the public are voicing their disapproval though, as they likely may not have been aware of some of the marketing.
 
rollermonkey said:
So... If this was the pre-show for the actual Nemesis coaster, could that make it good?

I mean the ride's backstory would need an update to accommodate, but that sounds like it would have been a better idea...
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I'm not sure if it has the capacity to be a preshow for the coaster...but it does raise an interesting point.

Extremis works IMO because its just one feature of a larger dungeons tour. None of the individual things on the tour are that special, but together, its alright.

But what they have done here is make it a standalone attraction, when it simply isn't strong enough to be.
 
I like to think it's more part of the Nemesis Package.

We all knew it was an Xtremis tower, however the extra padding is excellent imo. They've really put effort into the interior, staff and effects. It's a shame you're not in long enough to take it all in!

My favourite part is the exit lift though, non of the reviews seems to mention that as the monster starts attacking the lift on the way out, the panels in the wall get knocked in as if the monster is hitting them from the outside.

Also it seems some people get some effects in the lower chamber whereas others don't so it IS true not all the effects are fully synced/working just yet. Such as hot air blown on your back, the saliva spray, leg grabbers and back pokers.

Also may I add, the position of the queue is great for some..monorail interaction =D. Don't forget to give a driver a wave when you visit.
 
bob_3_ said:
I like to think it's more part of the Nemesis Package.

We all knew it was an Xtremis tower, however the extra padding is excellent imo. They've really put effort into the interior, staff and effects. It's a shame you're not in long enough to take it all in!.
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Xtremis has quite a forceful drop, this was the most forceless drop I've ever experienced on any ride (including 13) the story and effects are good but it's all build up for a huge anti-climax.

It would make a great Pre-show for Nemesis tho, as long as Sub-T exit led to Nemesis forcing you to ride both attractions.
 
The reviews are confusing me too.

All the reviews describe things that, in my head, I'm imagining to be good. But then the start of the review people go "it's crap!" People have said the acting is fab, the idea is fab, the theming is fab, but the actual physical ride is poo... Do the same people think Duel and Hex, as physical rides, suck? I hope so, but I bet that doesn't reduce the whole attraction to "crap".

On the flip side, Ice Age 4D has been getting really good reception. Huh?

I can't help feel like this is just the same as when any new ride opens. People can't WAIT to be the first in line to hate. The public included. Brits don't like admitting that something is good or that they enjoyed something, we find it awkward. We wait to make sure others liked it, or declare it's poo!

As I progressed through the reviews on Towers Times, they increasingly got better in some 13 pages after ONE DAY.

Another Hex?

I dunno, we'll see. It'll be a while before I get a chance to go on it, so I hope the actors stick around. :(
 
sheepboy said:
It would make a great Pre-show for Nemesis tho, as long as Sub-T exit led to Nemesis forcing you to ride both attractions.
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Do you realise how much hassle you'd receive trying to "FORCE" people to go on something, it's a fact that not everybody likes "drop towers", so you'd face a MIGHTY resistance to it...
 
I think rather than forcing people to ride this then Nemesis would of been good to have the exit of Sub-Terra to come out at the entrance to Nemesis. That way it could act as a build up or 'Pre-show' to Nemesis without actually being a Pre-show.
 
Lofty said:
Do you realise how much hassle you'd receive trying to "FORCE" people to go on something, it's a fact that not everybody likes "drop towers", so you'd face a MIGHTY resistance to it...
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I don't literally mean force someone to ride it. There are ways it can be done, with bypass lines etc.
I just personally think unless your led into nemesis people will still see the two as separate attractions.

If most people are willing to ride nemesis then I'm sure they won't mind going on Sub-T, I understand some may not like drop towers but this is so tame, it would be a great way to get the story of Nemesis across.
I had to explain the story to all of my friends as they didn't even realise there was a back story to the ride.
 
sheepboy said:
I just personally think unless your led into nemesis people will still see the two as separate attractions
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You mean like they are? It's not different to Nemesis/Nemesis:Inferno. Yes, N:ST is obviously thematically linked far more, and situated in the same park, but they are still different attractions. The name is enough to warrant people wishing to ride both to do so.
 
There are ways it can be done, with bypass lines etc.
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Which would be used by everyone because it means you could save 10 mins on your queue time by avoiding Sub Terra, which seems quite disliked at this early stage.

I mean, if you are whoring nemesis, you're not going to sit through Sub Terra each time are you?
 
Swat said:
I think rather than forcing people to ride this then Nemesis would of been good to have the exit of Sub-Terra to come out at the entrance to Nemesis. That way it could act as a build up or 'Pre-show' to Nemesis without actually being a Pre-show.
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The thing is, Nemesis has been like that for 18 years, and to suddenly add something to act as a "pre-show" for it so long after its initial opening doesn't make sense to me.

I haven't ridden it yet, but the backlash of the public is like nothing I've seen for a new ride at Towers. I'm still being optomistic about Sub-Terra, but I also worry about the re-rideability of it. I mean, was anyone who's ridden it running around for another go?

Going by the reviews of others, it seems the whole ride doesn't really know what it's trying to achieve and the overall experience is a confusing one. Until I ride it I won't be able to form a valid opinion, but the marketing seems to have come back to bite them once again. At least with Thirteen there was something which made me want to re-ride it. I'm unsure whether this will do the same.
 
I asked the question about N:ST as a pre-show for Nemesis.

It is a purely theoretical question.

Would this be better, if it had been a pre-show for the coaster?

Less anti-climactic and all that.
 
No. Not at all. All this talk of it being a Pre-Show for the coaster is ridiculous, it would never work. Having a ride that's actually intense as a Pre-Show for another intense ride, just NO. It'd be a nightmare for queueing, batching, if there's a problem with the Pre-Show ride, it'd cause an absolute nightmare with throughput. The thing is, with Extremis and The Dungeons, it's completely and utterly different, everything kind of leads up to that, and it's not a THEME PARK it's an Educational (of a fashion), Dark Entertainment Venue.
 
was anyone who's ridden it running around for another go?
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No, altough I kinda wanted to get on it again, just to see if my opinion would change.

I dont rate this balls up as the same as 13, as this can be quite scary, especially the 'exit' lift scene.

I think they thought too hard about good capacity, kinda like what they did with 13 (adding trims, better capacity). You're in, then out, in no time at all. Thats how it feels disappointing. Bad things IMO:

- Cheap wooden flooring for queue line, which is held up by scaffolding
- The actual drop is so, so forceless
- The moving 'effects' in the fake lifts are laughable
- The staff, they're waayy too OTT. Though I'll give a shout out to one chap, rather large, with beard and glasses, he was great, with out being OTT, where as the young chavs were just shouting their heads off constantly. It quickly got annoying.
- There seemed to be about 35 staff members working on this, all getting in the way of each other anf getting confused with guest numbers etc.

On the plus, it has potential. And like Bob, I loved the exit lift (although it could have been done better still, lights out maybe? After all, they' were playing off of the fear of being in the dark....)
 
Gazza said:
Extremis works IMO because its just one feature of a larger dungeons tour. None of the individual things on the tour are that special, but together, its alright.

But what they have done here is make it a standalone attraction, when it simply isn't strong enough to be.
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THIS. I said exactly that as we came off it. I've just written for the front page about this, but it's half an "attraction".

SPOILERS AHEAD

It does appear we were missing the leg ticklers, but the underground section (that looked like something they had left over from Ice Age 4D) was just WFT?

The problem was there just wasn't anything to give you an idea of context. Why was I going into this military base? Why are the military yelling at me and calling me name? Am I a prisoner? Unwelcome scientist? Unwanted member of the public? WHAT???

If there's been a covered queue with some kind of information video to set the scene, then it would have immediately felt like it was a better experience. The tension could have started to build there, just as it does with the Hex queue. When you have context, the ride would seem a little better as part of a package.

Generally though it's pretty sub-par, but mostly because there is no suspension of disbelief. The lift feels like naff lighting effects because it is. The egg looks like a kinder surprise, because it's clearly plastic. There doesn't feel like an escaped monster in the Ice Age room because you have no idea why it would be in a such a dull place and why it's suddenly started drizzling. If there was a flashing projection of the scuttling creature, or growling noises or something. I just sat there wishing I had an umbrella.

As we left, the other people in the lift with us all looked very disappointed (we'd queued for less than ten mins by the way). Then the lift started banging and stuff and everyone became agitated. It was actually brilliant and the atmosphere really lifted and everyone was suddenly into it. Then the door opened and it was time to get your bags and leave. So you were left with a feeling like you get leaving Charlie. Lots of "could be better", followed by a cool lift thing - only condensed into a three minute "experience".

To answer Roller Monkey's question then, as a pre-show to Nemesis? Brilliant. As separate attractions? It's awful.

Mark said:
So by the sounds of things then, they have done exactly what they did with 13. They have taken a ride that has the perfect sort of 'intensity' for the family market and then dressed it up and promoted it like an 'adult' attraction. Do they never learn? Considering the type of ride experience that it offers surely a theme that was less 'horror' and more family orientated would actually make the attraction more successful? Alton seem really insistent upon creating 'scary' or horror related attractions but why?

Horror is certainly popular with the teen thrill-seeker market so it's like they are aiming at a particular demographic market but then serving it up with an actual ride experience that simply can not match. Which again, like 13, leaves people feeling cheated. I just don't get it...
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The thing is, when you take away all of Alton's hype and bull, 13 is still a decent family coaster. You still get a mildly fun roller coaster trek through the woods, a mildly surprising and mildly fun drop, then the decent enough backwards bit. It's not a great ride, but it's also "fine". At least it's a complete thing.
 
So this has been universally slammed by enthusiasts as a piece of crap?

Is it really crap though, or just disappointing?

We all knew it was never going to be anything special ride wise but we were promised the world with theme and ride experience. Is that what's disappointing? Or where you sucked in by the Merlin hype machine, only to be spat out disappointed?
 
I went with incredibly low expectations and was still disappointed.

All you could hear coming off was the public complaining too about how poor it was. Now, you often get people moaning (I've heard it about Nemesis), but there's always a mix. A background chatter of "that was really scary"/"too short"/"amazing"/rubbish"/etc.

This, it was literally everyone coming off going "was that it? That was awful."

There wasn't a queue as we got off (and somebody here mentioned this earlier) but not a single person was rushing round to go on it again. I don't think the queue hit anything over 10 minutes all day (according to the boards). Even when it was shut, there wasn't a huge gaggle of people desperate to go on it. For a new attraction, it wasn't attracting anyone.

Haha! Just remembered, Blade had a larger queue and people going round for second goes. The ride is so bad, it forced people onto Blade :lol:
 
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