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New trains for Steel Dragon 2000

The most fun thing about the B&M clam shell trains is the fact that you can stick your legs out and feel like you're flying, why would they take that away all for 'safety' ;].

Nice to see that this park wants to keep their rides fresh and up to date though. Enclosed trains are so 2 decades ago.
 
Got to love CF.

It's all " **** leg restraints" and not "OMFG B&M two abreast seat trains on a Morgan coaster what could this mean for the future of other coasters?" :roll: :lol:

As SD2000 is a killer coaster, we know that the Japanese won't let it run without a 4,000% over the top increase in safety features. They will ensure that everything possible is done to stop another single incident on the ride.

As Hyde says, it probably isn't actually much more restrictive than the Morgan car and we don't know what the "safety envelope" is on the spaces around the track. It may be that you can put your foot six inches from the car and have it ripped off (Gavin, any ideas how close it could go?) which the boxed in trains stopped.

Imagine if PMBO was getting these? You'd probably hear the cheers in Japan!
 
I do find them quite odd. That's probably because these are the only B&M trains that seat two across (apart from their new hypercoaster ones but those are different as they have the V configuration). I also feel that they could have put one more seat in each row because the trains feel quite, well... empty. But maybe that wouldn't be possible. However, they do for sure look better than the old ones.
 
Joey said:
rollermonkey said:
Screaming Coasters said:
^ I assume because the cars are so close together, you could potentially reach out in front, perhaps enabling things like manual release and suchlike (however this is difficult to do).
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Sorry. This is impossible to do. The manual release on standard B&M hyper trains is under the floor, through a hole. The ones on Raging Bull were manipulated by a giant wrench, with a jaw about 2" across and the tool was about 3 feet long.
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Yeah I dunno why SC didn't know that, the leg brace is surely to stop people sticking their legs out and injuring themselves.
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Blonde moment...? I also wasn't aware of how B&M's operate their manual releasing on these ride types. But it can't be the only reason or Floorless trains would have the same thing, so would inverts and other exposed rides. I dunno, just throwing more ideas out.. I personally think there is more to it than what rollermonkey has said. I mean, where are they going to stick their legs that your arms can't go? Theres more to it than this simple statement and only B&M will know unless we ask.


However, if this bit of my post was quoted
But hmm, I dunno if thats right, but thats my theory behind the leg restraints.
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Maybe rollermonkey would have realised that it was an open suggestion for discussion and not a fact. I did say however;
you could potentially reach out in front
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so really, I was right. But the rest of it was just a theory, open for discussion.
 
Screaming Coasters said:
I mean, where are they going to stick their legs that your arms can't go?
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Ask that to the parents of the girl with a broken leg from the Ladybird coaster at LWV ;)

The train could potentially pass very close to a piece of track running parallel to it. The track it runs alongside could be too low to reach with your arms, but close enough to "kick".

I don't know, it's why I asked Gavin if he may have any ideas.

My point was that it's probably simply a complete over-reaction and "nobody will ever suffer ANY kind of injury on this ride again" Japanese attitude on a coaster that has injured passengers.
 
Screaming Coasters said:
I personally think there is more to it than what rollermonkey has said. I mean, where are they going to stick their legs that your arms can't go? Theres more to it than this simple statement and only B&M will know unless we ask.
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But then if you think about it, riders were always able to stick their hands out, therefore their arm reach would have been designed into the train envelope when the coaster was constructed.

It's the same thing with giving a Vekoma Corkscrew coaster new open trains, you could only make them so open without having to restrict rider movement because of the much smaller ride envelope the coaster would have had with its box cars. Take a look at any of the newer open designs for Vekoma coasters and you can see that they still restrict arm and leg movement.
 
I must say, that I honestly never would have expected this after learning of the B&M endeavor for Psyclone.

So, what does this fortell for older coasters later on? Is this just another test for B&M, or will this happen more?
 
I guess so, I've just not looked into B&M in depth to really understand them to a fuller extent like I do with Vekoma. S'all about learning!
 
Maybe they implemented the leg restraints to keep peoples legs closed for sanity reasons. Who knows :?
 
Xpress said:
Maybe they implemented the leg restraints to keep peoples legs closed for sanity reasons. Who knows :?
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You mean they know of Nic's visit already and have planned for it? Good call Japan!
 
Furie said:
It may be that you can put your foot six inches from the car and have it ripped off (Gavin, any ideas how close it could go?)
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The bunny hops on the return run close to the supports for the lift hill and first three drops. I don't think it would be anywhere near close enough for potential limb removal though. It's pretty much the same design and layout of Steel Force, only on a bigger scale.

Like Erol said, the potential to reach your arm out has always been there. Trying it from where I'm sitting now, and I can reach my arm out sideways - especially given that you can also lean your torso - a lot further than I can reach my leg.

Anyway, it does make me curious as to whether we'll see this elsewhere. It really has come from nowhere - along with B&M reversing some of their seats/trains - so it will be interesting to see how this pans out. They've never installed a train on any steel coaster that they didn't design themselves until this. I'm wondering if Nagashima Spaland asked them, or whether it's something they've been toying with and they approached the park. Given the other surprises we've been getting regarding B&M trains, I'm tempted to think it's the latter.
 
If I may guess, I'll say that the leg restraints are because of Japan's stricter safety standards. They look a lot different from the rest of the restraint. Maybe the park added them on after they received the trains?
 
See, the thing is, people keep going on about "Japan's stricter safety standards" when actually, when you look at their rides from international manufacturers, they're basically no different from those in Europe and America.

The whole "Japan is stricter" or "it's because of earthquakes" just gets trotted out for everything we're unsure of when it's not actually all that true.
 
This looks amazing! I don't care about the seatbelts or leg restraints. Think of the possibilities with this design! What other coasters may receive these trains? And what if B&M builds a 2 across seating coaster of their own?? :--D

I've always wondered why B&M have sticked with their 4 across seating? Sure it makes for higher capacity, but there are several advantages with a 2 acorss seating as well! First of I think the 2 across seating provides a more exposed ride. The regular B&M trains feel a bit bulky and are kind of like a car, while you compare them to the smaller more exposed Intamin ones that more have a feeling of a bike (if you get what I mean :p). Second I believe that a 2 across train design would be a bit cheaper to build due to lighter trains and a decreased need of supports. This would in the end lead to cheaper and/or larger rides! It would be be nice if B&M had the option to let the parks decide whether they want to maximize capacit or if they would like a cheaper design :)
 
furie said:
We don't know what the "safety envelope" is on the spaces around the track. It may be that you can put your foot six inches from the car and have it ripped off, which the boxed in trains stopped.
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Looking at the POV, that may well be the case. There are maintenance catwalks pretty much all the way around the ride, and the train seems to come very close to evacuation platforms on the MCBR and final brake run.

To be honest, the leg restraints don't look that bad to me. I know some people hated the ones on Superman Ride of Steel, but to be honest, they really didn't bother me at all.
 
It looks like they are still using the old wheel bogies from the original trains, causing me to think B&M may have only done a refurb and replaced the seating.
 
Bottom_Feeder_13 said:
It looks like they are still using the old wheel bogies from the original trains, causing me to think B&M may have only done a refurb and replaced the seating.
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I'm not an expert, but... ;)

Seriously, I assume that the wheel assemblies would have to be pretty much the same to match the design of the original track/trains... However, in that close up of the train, it does kind of look a bit like a mix of old and new - so I do wonder if they've used the original train shells and just refurbed as you say.

Anybody with more expertise/knowledge know?

MouseAT said:
Looking at the POV, that may well be the case. There are maintenance catwalks pretty much all the way around the ride, and the train seems to come very close to evacuation platforms on the MCBR and final brake run.
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It was that kind of think I was thinking about to be honest. I guess when you're in those Morgan/Arrow coffins, it's hard to tell just how close you get to those low structures.

gavin said:
Like Erol said, the potential to reach your arm out has always been there. Trying it from where I'm sitting now, and I can reach my arm out sideways - especially given that you can also lean your torso - a lot further than I can reach my leg.
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Anybody else imagining Gavin sitting in front of his class, waiting for the crap trainee teacher to stop droning on, leaning out sideways with arms, legs and torsos to test how far he can reach out :lol:

gavin said:
See, the thing is, people keep going on about "Japan's stricter safety standards" when actually, when you look at their rides from international manufacturers, they're basically no different from those in Europe and America.

The whole "Japan is stricter" or "it's because of earthquakes" just gets trotted out for everything we're unsure of when it's not actually all that true.
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I wasn't thinking about that (though you may not have been referencing me :lol: ) - just Japan's seemingly massive reaction to accidents. It doesn't follow that they will then go over the top when a ride reopens, but SD2000 was closed for how long after the crash? Certainly much longer than Magnum XL or PMBO after their similar incidents.
 
^There have been massive reactions to accidents, but when you look at the severity of those accidents, it's understandable and would be met with OUTRAGE if it happened here as well.

Steel Dragon 2000 - Threw a wheel into a swimming pool. Imagine the reaction if PMBO threw a wheel into a crowded area. Yes, it was closed for a very long time, but when it reopened it was without any real modifications.

Fujin Raijin II - De-railed and killed someone. Turns out the park hadn't been maintaining their rides at all. Clearly not strict on the health and safety if that was allowed to happen. Again, if that were to happen in this country, the park would be **** ed.

Spinning Coaster Maihime - Man fell out and died. Turns out there's no written instructions on how to check restraints and the girl working the ride at the time didn't bother. Hardly indicative of extreme health and safety.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that there's this perception of over-the-top health and safety when actually, if that were strictly true, the accidents wouldn't have happened in the first place and if they had happened here the reaction would be the same.
 
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