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No Gigas for Six Flags? Why?

coaster addict

Mega Poster
Sure, there are not a lot of gigas out there. Sure, the price is not cheap for these gigas. Sure, parks like SFOG have height restrictions due to nearby air traffic. However, where there's a will, there's a way.

SFMM and Great Adventure both have tall coasters. Great Adventure has Kingda Ka yet no giga. Is there something behind this?

Come this time next year, there is a great chance that Cedar Fair will yet another giga (putting them at 4 from our count); why wouldn't Six Flags want to get in on this?
 
More than likely they don't see the return of investment being worth it. Why spend upwards of $35 million on one coaster, when for the same cost you could iron horse two old wooden coasters and build a brsand new one. I'd take the latter every time because you can market in three different markets, rather than just one.

Sic Flags struck gold with RMC so far, and with Colossus all but confirmed to be going down for a major overhaul, they will have a fourth. You also have to look at the parks that got the gigas. Cedar Point is a given, we won't talk about that one.

Canada's Wonderland is Canada's Paramount park, and was also one of staples for Paramount.

King's Dominion was another large Paramount park, and with D.C. a few hours away, plus the direct competition with BGW, they had space, and need for it.

Carrowinds just announced last year that Cedar Fair is investing $50 million into the park to basically be not as ****, so they are slapping a giga down, allegedly.

It all depends on what the company and parks can afford/budget for and see as the best product to market for several years. Cedar Fair thinks throwing countless fair style coasters at KBF is a good idea, while Six Flags is renovating classics to ReMarker them to another generation. Obviously the parks have more input, but budget is key.

Six Flags being in **** for money for several years surely didn't help either.
 
Three words: Cost Benefit Analysis.

Of Six Flags' many screw-ups from the late 90s/early 00s, they learned that the mantra "If you build it, they will come" is not true. You must be able to show a return on investment of rides, and have some indication of what true value a new attraction will add to the park.

If the cost of a new ride is too high for what the park can afford, then it can't be built.
 
I get the whole budget thing - I'm just surprised that some of the top Six Flags (SFMM, Great Adventure, and a Texas one) have not added one. The costs are significant, but, I guess I am a bit surprised!
 
Hyde said:
If the cost of a new ride is too high for what the park can afford, then it can't be built.

To expand on this, it's not always about absolute cost (i.e. the actual price tag of the coaster), but comparative cost plays a rather big role too. Comparative to what, you say? Building something else.

There will always be alternatives when considering what rides to invest in. This goes as far back as the concept stage (i.e. using a plot of land for a coaster, a kiddie area or a new restaurant), but also on the detail stage (say, if deciding on a thrill coaster, there's a choice between a B&M Invert or a Mack Launcher). The various alternatives will usually differ in price, maintenance costs and predicted draw of customers (translated into income, based on the attracted demographic and the amount of money they are expected to spend at the park).

Generally, a park will choose the option that brings in the greatest amount of income for the lowest price. Alternately, the option that brings in the most income per invested dollar. Any new acquisition will be measured against alternatives before the park decides what to build.

And therein lies the catch with Gigas. They present an enormous initial investment, but usually have a high return by drawing in loads of customers. However, if those crowds fail to turn up, a lot of money is lost. It's a relatively high risk project. What if, say, the coaster experiences downtime for months in its first season, where its marketability and crowd drawing potential is at the greatest? Loads of money lost. Their high "scariness factor" also means they are less attractive to families with kids, which traditionally are the greatest spenders at parks. If you want a sure return of investment, a smaller coaster is probably a safer bet. Less expenses, less pressure to draw huge crowds, and usually less prone to mechanical problems too.

Another factor that shouldn't be overlooked is space. A Giga will bind up a huge amount of space. The alternative to build a Giga on a plot of land, will usually be building two or more attractions/areas there over the span of several years. A Giga will have to justify its cost, not only in dollars and cents, but also in acres and square metres.

All in all, this means it isn't enough for a coaster to generate profit, it has to generate more profit than the alternative options. After all, why build a Giga for $30 million for a predicted income of $34 million, when, say, an Invert will cost $20 million and generate $23 million in revenue? Okay, you'll earn a million dollar less, but at a much smaller investment, and get more money back for each dollar invested. Besides, the land beside the Invert can probably be used for future developments, potentially giving you even more money. Or maybe you could even drop the coasters, invest $3 million in a kiddie area, and gain $5 million in income, still with loads of room to spare for next year.

Of course, probability, devaluing of money and lifecycle costs also have to be taken into account, but the gist of it stays the same. Namely, that the alternatives to building a Giga tend to make more sense economically.
 
After Six Flags built Tatsu for almost $25 million they said they were never going to spend that amount of money on a single ride again, as it simply wasn't worth it for them. Six Flags have learnt their lesson, as others have said with building very expensive coasters, and coasters only.

They have been very focused on installing cost efficient rides lately, and it is working very well, they are bringing in the visitors. Installing a new/makeover RMC coaster for $10 million, or a Full Trottle/Superman type ride for $6 million have proven to be the right path for Six Flags, very cost efficient rides as well as popular. They don't need big giga/hyper coasters for their parks to be successful.

I think X-Flight is the most expensive ride they have done in the recent years, am I right?

They have also started focusing on major attractions that are not coasters, like Sky Screamers and the big-a $$ drop towers as well, something I like. Also the water parks seems to be getting more love now than a few years ago, but that might just be me believes so, simply because I wasn't following the water park business a few years ago.
 
Well, being someone who likes a bit of economics and who is in business, I get the whole ROI aspect of things. And, we all have probably heard how the water parks actually bring in the most bang for the buck... put a few slides, a wave pool, and some cabanas, and watch the money roll in (assuming weather is on your side). There is less risk. Of course, I would not expect SFOG to be the first Six Flags to roll out a giga. While it is the second Six Flags in our country (after Texas), it is not really a flagship location. Plus, you might have to consider the fact that SFOG is actually owned by 120 people and leased out to Six Flags corporate (similar at Over Texas from what I hear). This is different from my understanding about Cedar Fair parks (they seem to own the land and everything within it). Still, I guess I'd expect Great Adventure or SFMM to try to find a way to squeeze one in. At the time of Kingda Ka being built (and TTD for that matter), the costs were around 25 million, and that was the same costs of MF at the time of build. So, it is a surprise they did not build one instead of Kingda Ka (unless their only goal was to overtake TTD for speed and height records).

And... and other question is whether anybody would consider building an Intamin giga anytime soon (anywhere in the world... besides maybe Dubai where it seems money is not as big of an issue). Intamins apparently cost more to maintain when compared to B&M!

A second question (not to go on a tangent of sorts) is why doesn't a park build a hyper invert or winged?

More food for thought! (Thanks again for all of the interesting feedback and points of view! Great stuff!)
 
coaster addict said:
A second question (not to go on a tangent of sorts) is why doesn't a park build a hyper invert or winged?

Same reason, really. Both Inverts and Winged coasters manage to pull crowds perfecly fine without being 60+ metres tall. A 30 or 40-metre structure is impressive enough for most intents and purposes, and making it bigger and taller won't make much of a difference as far as attracting guests go. They come for the wild inversions and strange seating arrangement, not for the height (height helps, of course, but it's not a major factor once you go beyond a certain point).

However, height really makes a difference in price. Not only does it require taller, stronger supports (which might require separate, expensive, specialized equipment to hoist in place), but also more drawn-out curves which equals more space being used and more footers to pour. It simply costs a lot more than you get in return for it.

The terms to sum it up would be "marginal costs" and "marginal incomes". Basically, how much would it cost to make the coaster one metre taller, and how much would you get in return for doing so? At some point, the marginal income will be smaller than the marginal cost, and the addition of another metre will cost more than it's worth. You'd want to find the optimal point where those curves cross each other, that would mark the optimal height of the coaster. For winged and inverted coasters, the costs curve rises a lot steeper than the income curve, because height is not what primarily sells the coaster.
 
Certainly, the economics are a bit different for these specialty/niche coasters, but the thought of new heights and broken barriers maker new wonder!

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Usually how these question and answers work are the OP asks, then the community answers. :)

I work in finance for a theme park, and many people have covered the basic aspects of ROI. My additional detail from a marketing standpoint...a lot of parks who got hypers (and really they didn't become popular until about 10 years ago) only needed to break the 200 foot threshold to appease their market. Most hypers are the tallest, fastest, longest in the area. This also allows a park to market a giga, if they choose to get one, down the road. Most parks choose to gradually increase size of rides, rather than start huge and work back down. Of course im strictly comparing hyper to giga. Other ride types service park needs.

Additionally, I would imagine that outside of the first $5mil-$10 in capex the on going maintenance probably run pretty similar. The best park to observe would be Wonderland, who have a B&M hyper and giga.

Your second questions:

Im sure D&E teams all over the world have considered Intamin gigas for their parks, I have heard of a couple in particular.

I believe the Intamin v B&M argument is reliability more so than $$$. Although they are probably related.

Dubai has all of the same capex restrictions anywhere else does. Thats why 99% of what was planned for the city was shelved when the economy collapsed.

Not sure why you would need a 200 ft invert, winged could be marketable. Again depends on what the park is really looking to market. That being said Alpenghiest is 195 feet tall and Banshee and Katun are about 170, but the invert, specifically B&M, is more about the compact intense inversions, so height and space really isnt needed.
 
Solid points, rtotheizzo17! I'm certainly not in a rush to see every park get a giga or some crazy tall invert (Wicked Twister is 215, but it is not out and back). I love when parks make great rides at a lower price too! Heck, I'm anxious to see if the water slide market will amp up with recent slide additions.

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