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Phantasialand | F. L. Y. | Vekoma Launched Flying Coaster | 2020

How Fluorineer thinks is long-term and with the thought that the problem with the parking owners has been resolved, I guess.

If we think that Phantasialand gets hold of the car parks and connects mystery with China so that cars for the mystery parking can drive past the China parking lot then the traffic is separated from the possible new main entrance behind the Kaiserplatz.

The tunnel under the park can serve as a fast passage for the Shuttle buses. At the end of the tunnel next to new main entrance there is room for a roundabout where the buses can stop and return.

So, actually it's only the parking lot which is still in hands of the farmers, that blocks this idea from be realistic.



To make it easier to imagine, I made a small sketch:
IMG_20190109_151040.jpg
Green: possible new main entrance
Red: extension of the tunnel (under entrance building)
Blue: roundabout with the bus stop
 
I haven't even taken the tunnel into consideration. Now I'm not sure whether that can fit two buses passing by each other, but I suppose worst case scenario they could work that out with traffic lights. My biggest concern would actually be noise pollution, especially because it's not completely enclosed.

Looking at how central the Kaiserplatz is located, and how the propsed entrance area connects to pretty much every single theme area with very wide pathways (the widest amongst the entire park) I think this would even be an improvement in crowd-control. The china entrance is basically a hole in the wall to a somewhat populated plaza, and the connecting pathways towards Klugheim and Colorado are almost always crowded and almost produce "traffic" jams. The mystery entrance directs visitors either up the Mystery Castle hill, which results in guests walking much slower - or right into Klugheim, which really can't take any through traffic imo. Yes, the guests enter at different points within the park and that is good, but the points itself are not quite ideal.

If we take Rookburgh into this calculation, then it makes sense why they have been holding off for this long if they ever planned a new entrance, because literally every single people magnet would be located towards one side of the entrance: Klugheim, Chiapas, River Quest, Colorado and - even though it has an alternative route through Berlin - Black Mamba. Rookburgh is the requred balancing-piece. Not only does it tie in Berlin within a more balanced guest distribution, but considering how much attention they paid towards a Wuze-styled sound barrier wall, to me it seems like that they would like to give the Winja's more attention in the future. Which is a wise decision, like Colorado they never go out of style (insert Taylor Swift quote here).

I suppose it's up to personal preference what one would prefer, I'm not sure myself what I would think about a large Berlin entrance gate but you have to acknowledge that this location is suspiciously predestined.
 
Phantasiastisch said:
How Fluorineer thinks is long-term and with the thought that the problem with the parking owners has been resolved, I guess.

If we think that Phantasialand gets hold of the car parks and connects mystery with China so that cars for the mystery parking can drive past the China parking lot then the traffic is separated from the possible new main entrance behind the Kaiserplatz.

The tunnel under the park can serve as a fast passage for the Shuttle buses. At the end of the tunnel next to new main entrance there is room for a roundabout where the buses can stop and return.

So, actually it's only the parking lot which is still in hands of the farmers, that blocks this idea from be realistic.



To make it easier to imagine, I made a small sketch:
View attachment 4313
Green: possible new main entrance
Red: extension of the tunnel (under entrance building)
Blue: roundabout with the bus stop
Click to expand...
However any change with the ownership of car park land is almost impossible the way things currently are. After all why would they give up something that makes them so much money.
However if they lost this income (as in if Phantasialand got their own parking in the expansion) perhaps then they might be more willing to sell. Or an agreement was made that they get profit from the new parking. It's no guarantee but far more likely to be the only way things will ever change.

Also the parking situation doesn't change the fact Kaiserplatz is a bad location for an entrance. They'd need to demolish the back and redesign it. Kiss good bye to using it as a large show space and ice rink in Wintertraum.
Which given thats its designed for purpose and its still a relatively new area very unlikely to happen any time soon.

However long it may be, the park are waiting until the expansion. Until then nothing will or even really can change the structure of the entrances.
Also I can't say it really bothers me. And it doesn't seem to bother or deter their 2m visitors a year. So its undoubtedly not a major concern or priority for the park. Yeah it'd be nicer but its fine for now and other issues are far more important to tackle.
 
I wonder how feasible a Disney/Alton Towers style of "park far away and we'll bring you to the gate" car park and entrance is?

Looking from above, PHL is basically everything you don't look for in siting a theme park! No parking, limited expansion, proximity to civilisation, and hostile neighbours!
 
It's just not a planned park. It started as a fairytale park and neither needed a really large area nor to be far away from any housing. Though the residential area even developed towards the park. I think the closest buildings are from a time when it already was a bigger theme park. On the other hand I think at least in parts this whole situation helped the park become what it is today. There is just no space to spend on something mediocre. Since attractions have to be removed to build new ones, the new ones have to be amazing and something special for years to come.
 
Lofty said:
LOL comparing a 260+ acre park with a wide entrance to a 70 acre park with stupidly narrow pathways. Genius.
Click to expand...
I'd say the point still stands. If a park as big as SFMM (which doesn't have a transport system to get people to remote corners of the park quickly, so everyone has to walk everywhere) can make do with one entrance, tiny little Phantasialand shouldn't strictly need to have multiple entrances.
 
Look, I'm usually an advocate for the idea of "whatever works, works" and I want to emphasize once more that I'm not seeing any necessity here rather than my own wishful thinking. But take a look at this wonderful map courtesy of Wikipedia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Phantasialand_map_DE.png

IMO you can clearly tell how the China and Mystery entrances are not something I would call "well planned" but rather "the only locations facing the parking lot where you could poke a hole in the wall". Like, if you just ignore the current entrances, delete them from these maps, and you are entrusted with the honorable task of finding an entrance location that offers: a central location within the park, good throughput (so wide and open) while preserving as many of the existing buildings as possible, where would that be?


Dar said:
I wonder how feasible a Disney/Alton Towers style of "park far away and we'll bring you to the gate" car park and entrance is?

Looking from above, PHL is basically everything you don't look for in siting a theme park! No parking, limited expansion, proximity to civilisation, and hostile neighbours!
Click to expand...

I mean, the neighbours requested that themselves, and I think it could work. The highway exit is 600m away from the current Berlin entrance, so I'm sure something could be worked out.

The main issue would be that pretty much the entire surrounding area of both the highway and Phantasialand is a natural reserve. Which makes it questionable how the highway has been built there in the first place, but then again Brühl-Badorf strikes me as a typical german "one house, three cars" type of village (also fits perfectly with the Not-In-My-Backyard-cliché) so I can't really say that I'm suprised.
 
Pokemaniac said:
I'd say the point still stands. If a park as big as SFMM (which doesn't have a transport system to get people to remote corners of the park quickly, so everyone has to walk everywhere) can make do with one entrance, tiny little Phantasialand shouldn't strictly need to have multiple entrances.
Click to expand...
When you take into account the width of the entrance, the width of the main spill out area of the park and the layout, the point doesn't stand. Take the Berlin entrance for example - the two staircases either side entering the Main Street are around 3m wide (f*ck all) that then leads into one single street (tiny street at that) and so on - SFMM spreads quite soon after the entrance, they're both completely different designs.
 
One Entrance in Europa park that can handle all the mass? Who are you kidding? EP is a hell to get in at the beginning of the day and the even worse to leave at the end. (I always lay myself on one of the benches for half an hour or more until the masses are gone). Also I find, even though PHL its paths are more narrow, that I find EP always to be more crowded on the main connecting paths.
Okay the Mystery entrance has indeed a bad positioning, but if they redevelop China, they can make a major entrance there.
And I don't know anything about their plans, but if they are going to redevelop the area of the berlin and matamba car park to a bigger car park, then it would be silly to move the main entrance to the other side.
But all we are doing is speculating for things that will come in 10+ years the earliest.
We want more info on FLY!!!
 
To be honest, I could see the park getting rid of Wakabato and the lake and putting a car park that side. Multistory so it blocks sound, but also themed so it's not Merlin. They could move the entrance to round near ****ehawk, especially now they've made a new entrance for Fanstissima round there. Maybe the plan is to turn the Nighthawk building into an entrance complex with a sit down restaurant.
 
Dar said:
To be honest, I could see the park getting rid of Wakabato and the lake and putting a car park that side. Multistory so it blocks sound, but also themed so it's not Merlin. They could move the entrance to round near :emoji_poop:ehawk, especially now they've made a new entrance for Fanstissima round there. Maybe the plan is to turn the Nighthawk building into an entrance complex with a sit down restaurant.
Click to expand...

I don't see any chance of that happening honestly. The biggest problem with the lake is that the adjacent houses are so nearby that they would be affected by shade if you were to put up large sound barriers, and a themed car park is still a car park and I just don't see that fly with the neighbours. Phantasialand is already way too small. Sacrificing space is not justifiable under any means. If cars start stacking up and visitors looking for parking spaces within Brühl itself, well too bad.

Also, Wakobato would be a great attraction if it remotely worked. If anything, they should redevelop the lake into an Alton Towers Gardens section. The entire park is so densely packed that you need to preserve space to breathe.
 
Fluorineer said:
IMO you can clearly tell how the China and Mystery entrances are not something I would call "well planned" but rather "the only locations facing the parking lot where you could poke a hole in the wall".
Click to expand...

Ha, very well put. Completely agree. Its auch a pity that the park is so restrained, really really sad.

The main issue would be that pretty much the entire surrounding area of both the highway and Phantasialand is a natural reserve. Which makes it questionable how the highway has been built there in the first place,
Click to expand...

Thats the ridiculous aspect about it. This "Reserve" is actually synthetic, it was an open pit mine before and thus complete wasteland around a hundred years ago. The Energy company recultivated the area afterwards and created this forest. The ponds, also the one in Phantasialand, are from old pits etc. Somehow, Energy companies are allowed to desert huge areas with ages-old forests all over Germany, but this small area between the street and Highway is supposedly so special, that we can't do without it, even though it was completely thrashed before. Really, I think it's just a farce. Natural preservation is just used as a reason by the residents who fear the amount of visitors, noise, traffic, etc. when the Park grows more. In fact I can understand those concerns better than the environmental reasons. But I think with enough room, they could be dealt with.
 
If I remember correctly, they have quite a lot of issues while constructing due to swampy undeground in the area. I don't know how that helps when you have to dig deep to build an underground parking garage. Maybe it's just not possible or way to expensive.
 
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