dropthefloor93
Hyper Poster
Wingriders are pointless, this new design by Intamin is sick
The B&M Thread
- Thread starter dropthefloor93
- Start date
D1993
Hyper Poster
^ really I dont think its that cool. I mean im looking forward to Skyrush and all I think the ride will be great, but the floorless seats I think wont really add much. They will be cool, but essentially not the best part of the ride.
I think Skyrush is Intamin's usual great work just with the added seats on the edges.
Wing riders are very different experiences, with the loops and corkscrews and inline/heartline twists whatever, whereas skyrush will be more airtime here and there and turns and stuff.
I think Skyrush is Intamin's usual great work just with the added seats on the edges.
Wing riders are very different experiences, with the loops and corkscrews and inline/heartline twists whatever, whereas skyrush will be more airtime here and there and turns and stuff.
lakeccrunner
Mega Poster
dropthefloor93 said:
I don't see where this comparison is coming from. You're comparing two totally different types of rides.
The only thing you can compare Intamin's new hyper to, is a B&M hyper. Just because Intamin is throwing in some floorless seats, dosn't mean they're attempting to trump B&M's wingrider...
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I don't see the point in the new Intamin at all, but I totally get the old Intamin and B&M design.
D1993
Hyper Poster
I still think B&M overall is the better manufacturer. Both are great, and it really comes down to reliability and maintenance.
I have never had a B&M break down on me whlie waiting in line. In contrast, I have had Intimidator 305, Maverick, Fahrenheit, Kingda Ka, Superman Escape and TOT2 all brake down on me while I was in line. Its extremely frustrating and if a coaster isnt going to be reliable and work, whats the point of trying to get so big. Therefore I think B&M is the better manufacturer, and parks seems to be liking them alot too, seeing they have (5 is it?) projects next year.
I have never had a B&M break down on me whlie waiting in line. In contrast, I have had Intimidator 305, Maverick, Fahrenheit, Kingda Ka, Superman Escape and TOT2 all brake down on me while I was in line. Its extremely frustrating and if a coaster isnt going to be reliable and work, whats the point of trying to get so big. Therefore I think B&M is the better manufacturer, and parks seems to be liking them alot too, seeing they have (5 is it?) projects next year.
I think it's a difficult one to actually say who is more reliable. There are such a huge number of factors involved, most of which we're not even aware.
First up, you need to look at the range of Intamin rides compared to B&M. The Intamin catalogue is huge, and they do some very specific modifications for parks. Also, rides like Ka put both the trains and launch systems under a lot of strain. You could argue that "Intamin shouldn't make rides that can't take the strain", but they're delivering to the customer what they're asked.
Next you need to look at components. This is something most people don't think about. The control panels, sensors, motors, buttons, pistons, wires, etc. aren't (usually) made by the coaster manufacturer. Those components are all sub-contracted and installed by third party electricians/engineers. Obviously, If Intamin buy from "Cheap as chips control microprocessors Ltd." rather than "High quality control components (to the Queen) Ltd." and the stuff constantly fails, then Intamin should source from the better supplier. However, sometimes you won't find out how good or bad a component is until it's well into its working life.
Now, this is massively complex to be honest. The manufacturer will work with the component suppliers to produce the control systems, etc. They will provide the components and instructions to the park. They may also provide the engineers to install it, or they may use the component suppliers, or the park may use their engineers. It really depends on the park and the ride.
Once the ride has been signed off, it's up to the park to maintain the ride. So here's point three, running on from the above. Are the park maintaining the ride according to the letter of the manufacturers instructions? Are they using original components, or sourcing them independently (a 2.5Ma Type B solenoid from company A is the same product as one sold by company B after all). To bring costs down, both manufacturers and parks will use commonly available components and it may simply be cost cutting by one or the other that causes breakdowns.
B&M do have breakdown issues. Air is dreadful for instance. This kind of proves point 1 up above, B&M running their prototype ride suffers a lot even today. Bugs in Air have been well ironed out by the time you get to Manta. By doing rinse and repeat rides, B&M can guarantee the quality of their ride designs (in terms of systems) and components. By pushing boundaries and having a diverse ride set, Intamin are more prone to "teething issues".
The sheer number of Intamin rides too makes it more likely you'll find an errant Intamin. Hersheypark will have three Intamins next year and one B&M. Guaranteed you will find that it's three times more likely an Intamin will be broken than the B&M
At Alton, it's more likely you'll find a broken B&M
Finally, I get the impression Intamin are actually quite cheap. B&M like to sell themselves as a Mercedes of Coaster Manufacturers, Intamin are more the Fords. With cheap price comes cheap reliability (you offset this with the ability Intamin have to produce a coaster to your needs).
First up, you need to look at the range of Intamin rides compared to B&M. The Intamin catalogue is huge, and they do some very specific modifications for parks. Also, rides like Ka put both the trains and launch systems under a lot of strain. You could argue that "Intamin shouldn't make rides that can't take the strain", but they're delivering to the customer what they're asked.
Next you need to look at components. This is something most people don't think about. The control panels, sensors, motors, buttons, pistons, wires, etc. aren't (usually) made by the coaster manufacturer. Those components are all sub-contracted and installed by third party electricians/engineers. Obviously, If Intamin buy from "Cheap as chips control microprocessors Ltd." rather than "High quality control components (to the Queen) Ltd." and the stuff constantly fails, then Intamin should source from the better supplier. However, sometimes you won't find out how good or bad a component is until it's well into its working life.
Now, this is massively complex to be honest. The manufacturer will work with the component suppliers to produce the control systems, etc. They will provide the components and instructions to the park. They may also provide the engineers to install it, or they may use the component suppliers, or the park may use their engineers. It really depends on the park and the ride.
Once the ride has been signed off, it's up to the park to maintain the ride. So here's point three, running on from the above. Are the park maintaining the ride according to the letter of the manufacturers instructions? Are they using original components, or sourcing them independently (a 2.5Ma Type B solenoid from company A is the same product as one sold by company B after all). To bring costs down, both manufacturers and parks will use commonly available components and it may simply be cost cutting by one or the other that causes breakdowns.
B&M do have breakdown issues. Air is dreadful for instance. This kind of proves point 1 up above, B&M running their prototype ride suffers a lot even today. Bugs in Air have been well ironed out by the time you get to Manta. By doing rinse and repeat rides, B&M can guarantee the quality of their ride designs (in terms of systems) and components. By pushing boundaries and having a diverse ride set, Intamin are more prone to "teething issues".
The sheer number of Intamin rides too makes it more likely you'll find an errant Intamin. Hersheypark will have three Intamins next year and one B&M. Guaranteed you will find that it's three times more likely an Intamin will be broken than the B&M
At Alton, it's more likely you'll find a broken B&M Finally, I get the impression Intamin are actually quite cheap. B&M like to sell themselves as a Mercedes of Coaster Manufacturers, Intamin are more the Fords. With cheap price comes cheap reliability (you offset this with the ability Intamin have to produce a coaster to your needs).
michaellll
Mega Poster
I wouldn't say B&M ironed out most of their flyer problems on manta. Everytime I've ever been there it has broken down on me while in line for it. Eh.
I definitely agree with you furie. It ain't simple.
I definitely agree with you furie. It ain't simple.
D1993
Hyper Poster
hm interesting furie.
I see what you mean, Im just saying Ive never had a B&M brake down on me, at any of the parks ive been to and the only coasters that have broken down on me where intamins. at cedar point, great adventure, hersheypark, movieworld, dreamworld.
I have also noticed B&M is more expensive, because it seems they sell better quality rides I guess, in terms of how they work, and thats definetly how they adveritse themselves as.
Park upkeep could definetly have to do with it too, as im sure lots of parks would opt out for the cheaper option.
I see what you mean, Im just saying Ive never had a B&M brake down on me, at any of the parks ive been to and the only coasters that have broken down on me where intamins. at cedar point, great adventure, hersheypark, movieworld, dreamworld.
I have also noticed B&M is more expensive, because it seems they sell better quality rides I guess, in terms of how they work, and thats definetly how they adveritse themselves as.
Park upkeep could definetly have to do with it too, as im sure lots of parks would opt out for the cheaper option.
lakeccrunner
Mega Poster
^ All of the parks you named have Intamin rides that aren't traditional chain lift systems. They were LSM launched, LIM launched, cable lift, Accelerator...All complex systems, with many components that can have issues to cause a breakdown. All of the B&M's are chain lift systems. I'm not saying that they aren't complex, but they are definitely more reliable than the complex Intamin rides.
It's still frustrating when it happens, but it's bound to happen. The more complex something is, the more likely it is for something to go wrong.
Like furie said, Intamin is just giving the parks what they wanted, and the parks know what they're getting.
It's still frustrating when it happens, but it's bound to happen. The more complex something is, the more likely it is for something to go wrong.
Like furie said, Intamin is just giving the parks what they wanted, and the parks know what they're getting.
Intricks
Strata Poster
Re: The B&M Thread
And a wise company has decided to forgoe the limited, within-the-box-thinking, they usually use, and break all self imposed boundaries this season with an extreme array and arsenal of rides that are sure to wow us all and get #1 place in all categories :3
Switching between the hideouts'...
And a wise company has decided to forgoe the limited, within-the-box-thinking, they usually use, and break all self imposed boundaries this season with an extreme array and arsenal of rides that are sure to wow us all and get #1 place in all categories :3
Switching between the hideouts'...
Intricks
Strata Poster
Re: The B&M Thread
Soo....I think B&M and Intamin are playong a 1-up man game :3
In other news, B&M just took a **** all over Intamin If this ride is going to be as forceful as what I am guessing at and have insane amounts of floater, I can easily see this being number 1 a lot.
Switching between the hideouts'...
Soo....I think B&M and Intamin are playong a 1-up man game :3
In other news, B&M just took a **** all over Intamin
If this ride is going to be as forceful as what I am guessing at and have insane amounts of floater, I can easily see this being number 1 a lot.Switching between the hideouts'...
Intricks
Strata Poster
Re: The B&M Thread
^^ Intamin is the only manufacturer to not impress me yet. Premier, Arrow, Vekoma, CCI, B&M, GG amd Schwarzkopf have all impressed me, and I am quite easily impressed. Millie is forceless and only good feature is the drop. TTD is just a one-trick pony that after one ride is utterly pointless. Wicked Twister/Steel Venom were fun when I first rode them, but again, another one-trick pony. Disaster Transport is kinda fun for the first 5 or so runs through it. I havent been on many Intamins though, so I do keep an open mind when it comes to them.
^ Where is your reasoning? Cause of the manufacturer only? All the B&Ms I have been on didnt feel like they used trim at all to be honest. Then again, I am also having a blast riding them and not so bored of riding a roller coaster to just sit there and feel all the forces being put upon my body during the ride and whine when you feel a force you dont like.
B&M have shown that they to can use the big guns when needed. Im sure we will see more of them pop up around the world, moreso than Intamins Gigas.
Switching between the hideouts'...
^^ Intamin is the only manufacturer to not impress me yet. Premier, Arrow, Vekoma, CCI, B&M, GG amd Schwarzkopf have all impressed me, and I am quite easily impressed. Millie is forceless and only good feature is the drop. TTD is just a one-trick pony that after one ride is utterly pointless. Wicked Twister/Steel Venom were fun when I first rode them, but again, another one-trick pony. Disaster Transport is kinda fun for the first 5 or so runs through it. I havent been on many Intamins though, so I do keep an open mind when it comes to them.
^ Where is your reasoning? Cause of the manufacturer only? All the B&Ms I have been on didnt feel like they used trim at all to be honest. Then again, I am also having a blast riding them and not so bored of riding a roller coaster to just sit there and feel all the forces being put upon my body during the ride and whine when you feel a force you dont like.
B&M have shown that they to can use the big guns when needed. Im sure we will see more of them pop up around the world, moreso than Intamins Gigas.
Switching between the hideouts'...
Snoo
The Legend
Well first of all.. you missed Maverick. How about Bizarro.. ranked as one of the best in the world (although the poll is a crock).. Storm Runner? I305.. which would honestly be my #3 if it didn't trim the drop.
And it would seem you have already slightly closed your mind already.. with your predetermined 'All other rides have impressed me.. Intamins have sucked' mentality.
Intricks
Strata Poster
Re: The B&M Thread
Maverick is by far the best Intamin I have riden, which is why it wasnt listed (it is third). I305 is something I am looking forward to riding in the hopes that it does cause a change of opinion on Intamin to me. I dont see them in too high of a light due to not exactly thrilling me except for one of their rides built. So, compare the several Intamin with only one being an impressive ride, as to the four Premier I have been on and three of them were amazing to ride (Backlot is boring. The themeing makes that ride). I have ridden 11 B&M and I dont recall a bad ride. Granted most of them were only a one time ride cause I havent had time to get back to those parks, but as they say, first impressions matter. Diamondback looked boring, but was fun. Same with Goliath.
Opinions are based off of experiences. Intamin has left me wanting more from them. The rides are out there, I just have to get to them.
And I dont trust the Mitch Hawker poll. The people that can vote in that is endless. Those that watch POVs only can make a stated opinion about a ride while not riding it and use that opinion to vote. That means skewed votes. I like the golden ticket cause anybody can do it, so long as you have at least a 200 coaster count so that you are well rounded in opinions. My friend katie just did it last month actually, I have a picture of the actual form used to vote.
Switching between the hideouts'...
Maverick is by far the best Intamin I have riden, which is why it wasnt listed (it is third). I305 is something I am looking forward to riding in the hopes that it does cause a change of opinion on Intamin to me. I dont see them in too high of a light due to not exactly thrilling me except for one of their rides built. So, compare the several Intamin with only one being an impressive ride, as to the four Premier I have been on and three of them were amazing to ride (Backlot is boring. The themeing makes that ride). I have ridden 11 B&M and I dont recall a bad ride. Granted most of them were only a one time ride cause I havent had time to get back to those parks, but as they say, first impressions matter. Diamondback looked boring, but was fun. Same with Goliath.
Opinions are based off of experiences. Intamin has left me wanting more from them. The rides are out there, I just have to get to them.
And I dont trust the Mitch Hawker poll. The people that can vote in that is endless. Those that watch POVs only can make a stated opinion about a ride while not riding it and use that opinion to vote. That means skewed votes. I like the golden ticket cause anybody can do it, so long as you have at least a 200 coaster count so that you are well rounded in opinions. My friend katie just did it last month actually, I have a picture of the actual form used to vote.
Switching between the hideouts'...
lakeccrunner
Mega Poster
Intricks said:Soo....I think B&M and Intamin are playong a 1-up man game :3
In other news, B&M just took a **** all over Intamin
Switching between the hideouts'...
I'll believe it when I see it. To be honest, I don't see this ride being forceful. There isn't a helix or anything, which seems to be their best element on their hypers, and from the POV I saw 2 airtime hills...
This actually reminds me a lot of Millennium Force...A lot.