Whiting out on Nemesis and Nemesis Inferno...

[Paul]

What the eff? What ever happened to the days of just "black out" and "red out". They're really the only two "out's" you can do...but grey and white out? I think you mean black out...but maybe you're looking at the sun too much if you're seeing white or grey instead. I think I'm going to purple out if I keep reading topics like this.

...and if you're blacking out on newer B&M coasters, you probably shouldn't be riding coasters at all...because you will certainly meet your end on a Vekoma Boomerang. Or you're just imagining it...or making it up since there's nothing else to talk about.

 

[robbeal]

^Or the g-forces affect different people in different ways. Or the g-forces on some newer B&Ms are different to the ones you've experienced. Consider the possibilities. I know there's areas of Nemesis: Inferno that feel rather intense and that's a new B&M.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

...I think Paul needs to shut up.

Many, many people obviously are feeling the strange faint feeling on Inferno's loop.

Have you ever ridden Inferno, Paul? I think not.

The only other coaster i've whitted out on would be Colossus, but i was tired and suffering froma migrain at the time. Colossus was probably a dumb idea.... But the white out on that wasn't as bad as what i've had on Inferno.

...I feel like im going to go every time i ride Inferno now, but it's rarly worse than a few white splodges around the side of my eyes at the base of the loop and dissapears over the zero-g.

Don't go telling people what they are seeing or feeling Paul. Makes you look like an idiot. Expeshally when the rest of the topic is also complaining of WHITING out.

 

[c&r]

Hes not bieng stupid at all, hes purely pointing out its a weaker form of blacking out... No I haven't done it on either ride, but inferno always gives me a headache, thats one of the main reasons I hate it!

 

[kir]

There are such things as greying out and whiting out. They are totally different from blacking out. Greys and whites distort your vision and leave you dizzy, and your sense of direction is often stunded for a few seconds as you wonder where the hell you are and why you can't see anything apart from stars. Blacking out is more serious, where you come close to passing out because you can't handle to forces. Apparently it happens to people on Goliath's helix in SFMM, and the few other similar coasters out there.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

He didn't say that at all c&r... He claimes we're all going mad and that white and grey outs don't exist.

READ PEOPLES POSTS.

...

 

[c&r]

^That post wasn't entirely pointless was it.. I'll let paul comment on this himself as only he knows what he was saying, but I can assure you Hajime that white outs don't exist, it's just a weak form of blackout, you said yourself somewhere the SIDES of your vision started to go, not that you saw complete white/grey and nothing else for a certain period of time.

 

[Paul]

I think c&r was indeed the only one who really got the gist of what I was saying...but I do apologize to Sonic Freak and the rest of you for being cocky in the way I said it. If you're seeing white or grey on a coaster, then you're experiencing a form of a blackout, which is caused by the blood rusing out of your head and toward your lower body due to positive g force. The actual names for the only kinds of "outs" you can do are "red out" and "black out". Black outs, as stated above, are caused by any form of positive g force, by literally weighing down your body, causing your blood to flow toward your lower body. Red outs are caused by negative g force, having the direct opposite effect, where blood flows much more toward your head, and out of your lower body.

The physiological effects of g force on the body differ depending on the type of g force. Usually when a person blacks out on a coaster, it is due to lateral g force, which has the most effect on the body. Lateral g force is a type of positive g force that impacts the body in a shoulder-to-shoulder direction. Nemesis: Inferno has a maximum positive g force of 4.5. However, Nemesis: Inferno's high g force is not found on a turn or helix, it is found in the first vertical loop. Because it is in a vertical loop, the direction of the g force impacts the body at a right angle. This is known as transverse vertical g force. Because transverse g forces hit the body at a right angle (or directly toward the body), it doesn't effect the body as much as lateral g forces. Vekoma Boomerangs pull 5.2 transverse vertical g's in their vertical loop...but because it is transverse g force, it usually doesn't make riders black out. That being said, maybe people that do have a black out on Nemesis: Inferno are more susceptible to forces. But my point was, in most of their recent creations, Bolliger and Mabillard tone down the rides to the extent that they lack almost any forces.

I hope that makes sense to all of you, and again I apologize for the rudeness on my part in my previous post.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

[sarcasm]...Yes, because g-forces are the only factors that effect the rider on a roller coaster.[/sarcasm]

But forgetting that, why the hell would a weaker form of a 'black out' appear as white clouds? I still think that these white/grey outs are completely different frm black outs, like Kir said.

And you're still chattin' bull, Paul...



Theres obviously more to these WHITE OUTS (they are white, therefore they are WHITE OUTS...) than just g-forces, otherwise iw ould have experianced them on more itnense coasters...

Inferno is smooth and not particually intense, but exiting the loop leaves me dizzy on most days and occasionally with blurred vision for a few moments.

..and, holy fook, it's not just me either. Check out the rest of the topic! They are ALL COMPLAINING OF THE SAME THING.

Now... If you're so smart, explain why.

 

[Paul]

^When it comes to humility, you're the greatest...

Blacking out doesn't mean you necessarily see the color black. It's just the "official" name for it. Seeing white or grey or even pink with polka dots when under a high amount of positive g force is still a "black out". You said all the other people in the topic have complained of "white-outs" too, but some of them also said "white/grey" out...so it could just be a weaker blackout. Remember, you only experience forces on most coasters for a second or two, especially on compact coasters like N:I...so it's not like every single drop of blood is going to leave your brain in an instant.

G forces are the only thing that directly effects the homeostasis of a rider on a roller coaster. If you think it's something else, then maybe you're having a flock of geese thrown at your head while riding Inferno, or perhaps you're becoming intoxicated by the smell of the roses beneath the coaster.

And if you still think I'm "talking bull" then look up physics information on g forces online somewhere. You'll see that I didn't just pull everything that I said out of the blue.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

INFERNO ISN'T VERY INTENSE WITH A MAXIMUM G OF 4.5 - IF G-FORCES ARE THE ONLY FACTOR EFFECTING INFERNO'S RIDERS, THEN WHY THE HELL DON'T I 'BLACK' OUT ON MORE INTESE COASTERS?!

EDIT:

Ok, ok... i need to point somthing out

What ever happened to the days of just "black out" and "red out". They're really the only two "out's" you can do...but grey and white out? I think you mean black out...but maybe you're looking at the sun too much if you're seeing white or grey instead.

Whatever that was ment to mean, it sounds like you're saying that it's only possible to black out and red out and that it's not possible to 'white out', as in... See white and be out. It sounds like you're saying that we are lying.

C&R just asked me over msn if i was out when i saw white... and yes, i was.

My vision faded in from the edges and i felt dizzy exiting the loop...i could only see white, with smudges of greys and mild yellows. My vision faded back to normal just after the zero-g...

...On several occasions this year i have felt that it was goign to happen again... the white smudges start to appear and i feel faint and dizzy, but that soon leaves as i hit the zero g.

MY POINT IS...

That something on Inferno must be causing this and i think theres more to it that just G's. If whiting out was due to just g forces alone, i would have experianced the same thing on other coasters. Because the experiance was only seveer on one day and i have only felt this feeling this year, i am thinking it mught be somthing to do with our freaky weather...

...It was incredably hot the day i 'whited out' completely.

Yes... blacking/whiting out is caused by g-forced, but is 'enhanced' by other factors effecting the individual.

What is it about Inferno thats causing this?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, what is it about Inferno that causes it? You are defending your point, and your point relies on that thing on Inferno that causes a white out. So, of all people, you should know, or you have no argument. So, now, please tell us all, what is this thing that makes Inferno so much different?

 

[Paul]

I was making fun of you in that quote...if you didn't get it.

...It was incredably hot the day i 'whited out' completely.

Yes... blacking/whiting out is caused by g-forced, but is 'enhanced' by other factors effecting the individual.

What is it about Inferno thats causing this?

Well you tell me now it was incredibly hot...if it was incredibly hot, then your body could have been weaker (dehydration, etc), and it could have made you more prone to not being able to handle higher g-forces as well.

And, you say this hasn't happened on any other coasters...well Nemesis: Inferno, as far as I know of, pulls the highest amount of positive g forces of any UK coaster. You probably wouldn't have felt this on Nemesis at Alton Towers, as it only pulls 3 g's at it's highest.

Also, I noticed you said that the feeling was gone by the time the train reached the zero-g roll, which makes sense, as that greatly reduces the g force from 4.5 to 0.

Now please, stop making me repeat myself.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to confirm, whiting out is perfectly possible.

Paul, I think you were a little out of line.

I know people who have claimed to experience it on Kumba, so it's bound to be heat-related.

 

[Anonymous]

But the thing is, he hasnt given us a shred of proof of that. It COULD be heat related, but can you prove that?

 

[Anonymous]

I've experienced this feeling on Top Gun @ Paramount's Great America. The only time I experienced it was at the end of the day when it was cool (even once when it was raining and when it rains here it's like 65* outside). It happens about 90* into the first turn and continues through to the bottom of the drop. The reason for this in my opinion?

The sun.

At the end of the day the sun is right in your eyes as you pass though the 90* point of the turn. Which is when I "white out." I myself don't believe it's due to the G-Forces, because any other time of the day I don't experience it.

Now I'll go away and wait to be yelled at by one of the two or both.

 

[Anonymous]

How would one prove that?! Seriously, it'd be hard to prove a black out or red out too...I can't go into someone's body while they ride the ride and find out.

The real issue is why would he make it up?!

 

[Paul]

^We didn't say he made it up. It's just officially called a "blackout" and "redout".

*sigh* Get your butt online.

 

[Anonymous]

I've experienced this feeling on Top Gun @ Paramount's Great America. The only time I experienced it was at the end of the day when it was cool (even once when it was raining and when it rains here it's like 65* outside). It happens about 90* into the first turn and continues through to the bottom of the drop. The reason for this in my opinion?

The sun.

At the end of the day the sun is right in your eyes as you pass though the 90* point of the turn. Which is when I "white out." I myself don't believe it's due to the G-Forces, because any other time of the day I don't experience it.

Now I'll go away and wait to be yelled at by one of the two or both.

I have ridden at around that time, too, but I have never experienced this so called 'white out', just a simple black out, so I cant really vouch for that one.

How would one prove that?! Seriously, it'd be hard to prove a black out or red out too...I can't go into someone's body while they ride the ride and find out.

The real issue is why would he make it up?!

It isnt hard to prove a black/red out at all. the g forces from roller coasters either force blood out of your head, causing your vision to turn black, or it forces blood into your head, which causes too much blood in your eyes, and that ends up with you seeing red.

So basically, there is a scientific way to prove something like a white out, if it exists.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

WTF?!

Brainwash... lol, ok... this topic is getting confusing.

Now please, stop making me repeat myself.

Well, you hadn't actually said any of that yet... So.

Nemesis: Inferno, as far as I know of, pulls the highest amount of positive g forces of any UK coaster. You probably wouldn't have felt this on Nemesis at Alton Towers, as it only pulls 3 g's at it's highest.

Ok... I'm willing to believe that. Sounds fesable.

But i thought Nemesis had a max G of 4..?

At least, thats what it says outside the ride.... on my on-ride photo, on the old alton towers website (not sure about the new one) and the majority of Brit's im sure would argue that Nemesis is the more forceful ride.

I've always believed that if you took Nemesis out of its pit, it wouldnt be half the ride. I've always thought it was simply down to near collisions and such that make the ride so intense.... Ask Stone Cold, he shook his head and tutted at me when i said this. But of recent i've been convinced by others that Nemesis is an extremly intense coaster without it's theming...

...I'm not goign to pretend i know eveything. If i did i wouldn't have made this topic.

But if you can, proove to me the comparason of the G's on both rides.


Anyway.......

Inferno seems to be only starting to get really intense this year. In previous years it's been a real pussy.

Well you tell me now it was incredibly hot...

Because it had only just occured to me.

It COULD be heat related, but can you prove that?

It's simple logic that the hotter a person is the more... whats the word... well, worked up they get.

Doesn't heat increase blood pressure...?

Well anyway. When it's hot, i know i' more prone to headaches, etc... And people often faint under intense heat. So it's only logical that ehat would effect the riders...

But... this is England. lol. Their are coasters in far hotter climates with higher G-forces than Nemesis Inferno.

So basically, there is a scientific way to prove something like a white out, if it exists.

I do understand what you're saying, but the way you're saying it sounds daft...

Look. Ever suffered from a headache? How can you proove that headaches exist...? Hm? Can you proove it..? NO! But it still happens.

If i feel faint, appear to 'out' and i see white... i'm gunna call it a ....white out! Cuz' the English language is amazing like that, ya know.

I've experienced this feeling on Top Gun @ Paramount's Great America. The only time I experienced it was at the end of the day when it was cool (even once when it was raining and when it rains here it's like 65* outside). It happens about 90* into the first turn and continues through to the bottom of the drop. The reason for this in my opinion?

The sun.

At the end of the day the sun is right in your eyes as you pass though the 90* point of the turn. Which is when I "white out." I myself don't believe it's due to the G-Forces, because any other time of the day I don't experience it.

It;'s a good point, and i think Paul also stated that we are looking at the sun too much...

...But i just don't think so.

If it was like...a white glare then maybe. But it's spodges... like clouds. Or thats what i see, anyway.