What's new

WTF BPB?

Guys the scanner isn’t really for operational feedback. It’s for insurance and claims purposes. If you put a claim against the park of injury then they have evidence you carried on your day. I think this is the biggest factor for them keeping them personally.
If thats the case, and it wouldn't shock me, then it would be better for all concerned to invest in new rolling stock for the National with lap restraints that don't click down as the ride progresses, then sack the scanners off.

Win win situation, better ride experience on one of their best coasters and a more efficient park overall. Scrap the Ice Show to fund it, winner winner chicken dinner!


(Did I actually just type that 😳)
 
It needs better direction for the park.

Look at Valahalla. It's the biggest attraction and I've not heard / seen any adverts in Manchester

The price also puts me off. Its £36 on average but doesn't really have any major thrill rides. I'd rather spend £160 on a merlin pass and goto alton multiple times
 
It needs better direction for the park.

Look at Valahalla. It's the biggest attraction and I've not heard / seen any adverts in Manchester

The price also puts me off. Its £36 on average but doesn't really have any major thrill rides. I'd rather spend £160 on a merlin pass and goto alton multiple times
Im sorry bit I'm not agreeing there. I will conced they may not be ground breaking, modern, to your personal taste or comfortable, but to suggest the likes of the Big Dipper, Grand National, Revolution, and even Streak, Avalanche, Infusion and the Big One are not in some way or another thrilling I cant accept.
 
Last edited:
Im sorry bit I'm not agreeing there. I will conced they may not be ground breaking, modern, to your personal taste or comfortable, but to suggest the likes of the Big Dipper, Grand National, Revolution, and even Streak, Avalanche, and the Big One are not in some way or another thrilling I cant accept.

I would say they aren't that thrilling to the average member of the general public. Perhaps if the Merlin parks ceased to exist, but unfortunately the hardware that BPB has on offer just doesn't stack up when pitted against the likes of AT & Thorpe.

Anyway, I agree that Hot Ice should be scrapped. I haven't seen it in years so I can't comment on the quality of the show, but people really do not care for it. The numbers speak for themselves, I just wish the vanity project was brought to a close. Amanda needs to realise that the money could be better spent elsewhere.
 
I would say they aren't that thrilling to the average member of the general public. Perhaps if the Merlin parks ceased to exist, but unfortunately the hardware that BPB has on offer just doesn't stack up when pitted against the likes of AT & Thorpe.

Anyway, I agree that Hot Ice should be scrapped. I haven't seen it in years so I can't comment on the quality of the show, but people really do not care for it. The numbers speak for themselves, I just wish the vanity project was brought to a close. Amanda needs to realise that the money could be better spent elsewhere.
Again, personally I get more from the 3 woodies at BPB than most at any Merlin parks, most are hyped to the max and ultimately a let down, Thirteen and Air/Galactica particularly and I struggle take seriously anyone who suggests either are more thrilling than the National or Dipper, age doesn't really come into it.
 
Again, personally I get more from the 3 woodies at BPB than most at any Merlin parks, most are hyped to the max and ultimately a let down, Thirteen and Air/Galactica particularly and I struggle take seriously anyone who suggests either are more thrilling than the National or Dipper, age doesn't really come into it.
The world would be boring if we all agreed!

Issue with Merlin is they had a lot if world firsts. Oblivion is too short and Air (I still call it that) isn't very thrilling because its another world's first


Icons a decent ride but they need to move with the times. Rather than re tracking the big one I'd prefer it to be removed and something by B&M thrown in. If they scrapped the ice show then or leased it to someone off site it could be a great park.
 
Again, personally I get more from the 3 woodies at BPB than most at any Merlin parks, most are hyped to the max and ultimately a let down, Thirteen and Air/Galactica particularly and I struggle take seriously anyone who suggests either are more thrilling than the National or Dipper, age doesn't really come into it.

That's fair enough if you find them personally more thrilling. I'm just talking about the average member of the general public. And even enthusiasts for that matter.

I think if you did a poll on here, most would vote the likes of Stealth, The Swarm, Nemesis, Oblivion etc more thrilling than the likes of Big Dipper.
 
Remove the Big One instead of retracking?
Rather unlikely.
Still the signature ride on the park...by a very long way.
Unpopular with thoosies, very popular with the public.
 
What do you think the difference is with BPB and places like Fantasy Island in Skegness and Adventure Island in Southend that seem to successfully run the free entry systems?

They both still stay open till around 10pm on Peak days too (presumably facilitated by the free entry system).

I live fairly close to Adventure Island, obviously it's a smaller park than BPB but i think it has more similarities than differences. You do occasionally get trouble in my experience but i don't think it's anything too bad (I've seen more trouble at Chessington tbh but appreciate that is anecdotal 😂 )

Plenty of security and i suppose an unspoken rule that daytime is for families. The Free Entry is also great because it enables far more spontaneous trips, which i think is part of the appeal of seaside parks. Pop in for a few hours on a sunny day as opposed to Merlin parks which are all day affairs i expect for the vast majority of customers outside of season pass locals.
 
What do you think the difference is with BPB and places like Fantasy Island in Skegness and Adventure Island in Southend that seem to successfully run the free entry systems?

They both still stay open till around 10pm on Peak days too (presumably facilitated by the free entry system).

I live fairly close to Adventure Island, obviously it's a smaller park than BPB but i think it has more similarities than differences. You do occasionally get trouble in my experience but i don't think it's anything too bad (I've seen more trouble at Chessington tbh but appreciate that is anecdotal 😂 )

Plenty of security and i suppose an unspoken rule that daytime is for families. The Free Entry is also great because it enables far more spontaneous trips, which i think is part of the appeal of seaside parks. Pop in for a few hours on a sunny day as opposed to Merlin parks which are all day affairs i expect for the vast majority of customers outside of season pass locals.

The Blackpool clientele and level of local criminal activity are definitely factors. I know that the likes of Southend aren't exactly tranquil havens but Blackpool is on another level.

On top of that, the stag and hen thing along with the stigma of a heavy drinking culture have not helped the resorts reputation. They have tried and failed to shirk that.

Back in the day when BPB had free entry, they had a good amount of security, but it didn't necessarily stop incidents from breaking out most of the time.

The resolution here is not necessarily scrapping all entry fees, but making them affordable and having offers in place whereby members of a paying group are welcome in for free on the basis that they are with wristband riders. Additionally, half day (afternoon/evening) tickets and more flexible options should be available for those less committed to a full day of riding. A variety of deals plus marketing are what is needed. Don't force the visitor to do the work and have to navigate to the website only to see the fairly steep cost. Bring the deals to them!

Also a seaside amusement park like BPB does not need to open as early as 9-10am. Midday to 8-9pm (10pm where possible) is the key. Align with the potential visitor. Most of Blackpool are probably still in bed or just getting up when the park opens. The footfall across the promenade is incredibly low so early in the morning. A casual visitor is not going to want to work their day around the park's hours, so the park must work around them. I think the management need to really understand their market and play into it more.
 
Another thing that I think should be said about Blackpool Pleasure Beach is that even though it is a seaside park, it’s on a totally different scale to any of the other piers or seaside parks in Britain, which does change the game somewhat. I often hear people say “the Blackpool piers and the likes of Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach run with free entry and universal pay-per-ride, so why can’t Blackpool Pleasure Beach?”. In answer to that, I would say that the scale and type of operation that the park is mean that the proposition needs to be completely different.

This isn’t meant disrespectfully to any of those other parks, but the piers are essentially little more than permanent funfairs and aside from the odd major coaster or two, I’d probably say the same about most of, if not all of, Britain’s other seaside parks. The major draws are relatively limited, so those parks are more conducive to free entry and universal pay-per-ride. These parks are conducive to offering the type of experience sought by the customer who simply wants to give their child a go on the dodgems or whatever to pass some time, and with there often being no more than 1 or 2 major draws to set the park apart from other seaside parks and piers, people are far more willing to simply pay for the one attraction and leave the park feeling fulfilled.

Blackpool Pleasure Beach, on the other hand, is arguably more comparable to Alton Towers or Thorpe Park than any of the country’s other seaside parks. Unlike the others, I’d argue that Blackpool Pleasure Beach is a major park with plentiful major draws that just so happens to be by the seaside. Say what you will about your personal opinion of Blackpool Pleasure Beach’s ride selection, but the park has a lot of big, major rides that set it apart from the rest and make people want to go there, and for that reason, I feel that the park becomes a compelling enough day out in itself, more akin to Alton Towers or Thorpe Park than any of the UK’s other seaside parks and piers. That, in my opinion, lends itself more to a more prominent pay-one-price offering, as pay-one-price offers better value for those wanting to spend a fuller day at the park.

I also think that scale plays into the antisocial behaviour thing too. Antisocial behaviour may be a minor issue at the likes of Adventure Island or the Blackpool piers, but when you magnify the scale of the park, you also magnify the scale of the issues alongside it, so just because antisocial behaviour is a minor issue at a smaller UK seaside park, that does not mean that it would be an equally minor issue if Blackpool Pleasure Beach re-implemented free entry and operated in the same way.

With that being said, I admit that Blackpool Pleasure Beach could perhaps be more pragmatic in terms of walk-around pass offerings and entry fees than it currently is. However, I don’t agree that triumphantly returning to the era of free entry and more universal pay-per-ride would be the silver bullet that solves all of the park’s problems, as Blackpool Pleasure Beach is a totally different proposition to any other seaside park or pier in Britain. If it wasn’t for its location, I don’t think Blackpool Pleasure Beach would be compared to the other seaside parks and piers in the UK nearly as much, as in terms of scale and breadth of offering, I firmly believe that it’s more comparable with the major theme parks, personally.
 
If it wasn’t for its location, I don’t think Blackpool Pleasure Beach would be compared to the other seaside parks and piers in the UK nearly as much, as in terms of scale and breadth of offering, I firmly believe that it’s more comparable with the major theme parks, personally.

Yeah i get that. In a way it's kind of the worst of both worlds rather than the best.

I do still think there's a different psychological mentality for customers when a theme park is located in the middle of an urban area as opposed to the isolated nature of other UK theme parks. It reduces it being the focus of your day, even if there are enough rides to occupy an entire day.

Seems quite sad that antisocial behaviour is potentially the biggest hurdle to it functioning.
 
Interesting comments above re: which park is more ‘thrilling’. I’d definitely say the BPB ride line up is way more ‘interesting’ to me than both Thorpe and Alton because of the aging woodies, flats and dark rides. It’s pretty neat. But if I hadn’t explored parks abroad, then the Merlin offerings would probably seem ‘more impressive’ (rather than ‘frustrating’).
 
Yeah i get that. In a way it's kind of the worst of both worlds rather than the best.

This is basically the dilemma.

BPB, traditionally speaking, would and should not need to compete with Merlin. The Blackpool Pleasure Beach Group, up until the late 90's had the likes of Southport Pleasureland and Frontierland in its arsenal (BPB being the flagship, of course). They didn't have a reason to directly compete with parks south of Manchester.

The Thompsons had a monopoly up in the North West. Camelot was the only outside contender up here, and they did not have the financial might of the Thompsons, nor the exclusive location at one of Britain's most popular seaside resorts.

As BPB and Tussauds decided to investment in bigger and more groundbreaking rides, it placed them in direct competition with one another. We all know about 1994 so no need to go into that.

With the exception of, say, Valhalla, BPB couldn't really follow-up on The Big One whilst Towers continued to splurge on exciting (and expensive) new concepts like Oblivion, Air & Rita (yes, Rita did draw interest at the time). Meanwhile, the Thompsons sacrificed the sister parks to save the golden goose.

Many years later, and I feel that some of Geoffrey's earlier financial decisions are still affecting the park to this day. These are exacerbated by Amanda's apparent lack of knowledge or deep passion for the amusement park as a whole.

What doesn't help is that we've lost quite a lot of small - mid range family parks since the heydays of the 90's, and of course the average family has a lot less disposable income, which means now you'll have more potential customers directly comparing the likes of AT and BPB in terms of ride offering, price, opening hours etc in order to decide which option suits them best for a day out.

On the flip side, you have the casual punter who either lives or is visiting Blackpool and wants to tag BPB into their itinerary but may not want to spend X amount of money or spend a full day there.

BPB aren't really catering to this audience, and the model they have currently means that they will continue to be directly compared to AT, Thorpe when it isn't necessarily a fair comparison.

They've literally had 1 new coaster since The Big One (we're not counting Infusion). And to be honest, a LOT of people don't even know about that 1 new coaster.

To put it into context, Nemesis (a ride now being retracked for a new generation of riders) is the same age as BPB's 2nd newest coaster (3rd if you want to be extremely generous). Since that time, Alton Towers have added 2 more B&Ms, a Maurer Spinner, an Intamin Accelerator, Intamin Multi Dimension, Gerstlauer Infinity Coaster & a GCI Woodie and we're already hearing murmurs of the next major attraction.

BPB have added Icon.

So, they need to take a look at their pricing structure and bring it in line with what's on offer. They also need to recognise that they have a lot of potential customers that are excluded because they do not have the same level of commitment as someone driving to the arse end of nowhere especially to visit a park like Towers.

More deals and more flexibility pls.
 
Another thing to note is that the park being quiet is not necessarily a reliable indicator of its profitability.

It is worth noting that even though the park was busy when entry was free, a large proportion of people in there were probably making the park no money, or at least a pretty minimal amount. Even when the walk-around pass existed at £4, some people in there would only have made the park £4.

Although going fully pay-one-price has seemingly decreased the number of people in the park, it does mean that everyone in the park is making Blackpool Pleasure Beach at least £40 or so, which they couldn't say before. Spend per capita is an increasingly important performance metric for theme parks, and if the abolition of walk-around passes and/or free entry has raised this figure enough to offset the loss in guests, then it has been a successful move for the park.

1 million guests who spend £40 on average will be of far more interest to Pleasure Beach than 5 million guests who spend pretty much nothing on average. Even if the abolition of free entry and more flexible non-rider entry options has annoyed some people and put them off visiting, it doesn't matter to the park's bottom line if the people they haven't annoyed are spending enough extra money to offset the loss in custom.

The big question is; is this the case? Are the guests still visiting Blackpool Pleasure Beach spending enough extra money to offset the loss of the guests who are annoyed by the lack of non-rider entry options? It's an interesting topic to discuss.
 
The big question is; is this the case? Are the guests still visiting Blackpool Pleasure Beach spending enough extra money to offset the loss of the guests who are annoyed by the lack of non-rider entry options? It's an interesting topic to discuss.
I was looking for their profit figures and came across what looks like a post you made elsewhere!
  • Year ending April 1999 (i.e. 1998 season): Loss of £1,349,000
  • Year ending April 2000 (i.e. 1999 season): Loss of £744,000
  • Year ending April 2001 (i.e. 2000 season): Profit of £1,527,000
  • Year ending March 2002 (i.e. 2001 season): Profit of £1,268,000
  • Year ending March 2003 (i.e. 2002 season): Loss of £58,000
  • Year ending March 2004 (i.e. 2003 season): Profit of £95,000
  • Year ending March 2005 (i.e. 2004 season): Profit of £3,320,000
  • Year ending April 2006 (i.e. 2005 season): Loss of £5,649,000
  • Year ending April 2007 (i.e. 2006 season): Loss of £1,347,000
  • Year ending March 2008 (i.e. 2007 season): Profit of £2,687,000
  • Year ending April 2009 (i.e. 2008 season): Loss of £4,279,000
    • Year ending April 2010 (i.e. 2009 season): Loss of £521,000
    • Year ending April 2011 (i.e. 2010 season): Loss of £764,000
    • Year ending April 2012 (i.e. 2011 season): Loss of £1,313,000
    • Year ending March 2013 (i.e. 2012 season): Loss of £2,547,000
    • Year ending March 2014 (i.e. 2013 season): Loss of £1,867,000
    • Year ending March 2015 (i.e. 2014 season): Profit of £364,000
    • Year ending March 2016 (i.e. 2015 season): Loss of £129,000
    • Year ending March 2017 (i.e. 2016 season): Loss of £264,000
    • Year ending March 2018 (i.e. 2017 season): Loss of £3,008,000
    • Year ending March 2019 (i.e. 2018 season): Loss of £1,874,000
    • Year ending March 2020 (i.e. 2019 season): Loss of £2,021,000
It's quite difficult to fully analyse due to all the other variables (eg. Major ride investment and financial crash).
 
Those figures can't be right surely? How can they continue to just lose millions of pounds every year?

No wonder Valhalla has to be run periodically!
 
It is a complex bunch of individual groups within the company.
Profits are taxed, so it doesn't pay to make much money, profits get sunk into new projects, or skaters outfits.
The hotels make a profit.
The rides and f&b break even.
Hot Ice loses a fortune.
Recent actuarial audit...allegedly.
They make all the money in the school holidays, and lose money termtime weekdays.
A couple of busy sunny weeks in the school holidays can make or break a season.
 
Top