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Cedar Fair's falling out with Intamin?

C

Coastin Eric

Roller Poster
This has been bothering me somewhat recently, and I've started to notice a trend between Cedar Fair and Intamin. Well this trend happens to be...no trend.

Recently we have seen Leviathan, Gatekeeper, Diamondback, Intimidator, Banshee, and several other B&M's popping up in Cedar Fair parks. If I'm correct, the last Intamin coaster we've seen at a Cedar Fair park was Intimidator 305.

Im curious to what the reasoning behind this is?

The reliability of B&M taking over?
The satisfaction of B&M?

Intamin hasn't been building too many coasters recently, but with the ones they do build, it appears Cedar Fair wants no part of it.

Any feedback is appreciated
 
Since the construction of Millennium Force (which had teething issues due to a new lift system), it just seems as though any/all American built Intamins have just had some SERIOUS malfunctions that involve excessive downtime and even a re-profiling job done either during construction (Mavericks barrel roll) or within the next season of opening (I305).

They probably also realized that eeven though you are only spending X amount, the sheer amount of money for upkeep ends up exceexing the cost of a B&M.
 
When you spend millions of dollars, do you want a reliable ride which wont cost millions to fix.. or an unreliable ride that costs millions to fix?

End of the day, that's why B&M is winning. B&M gives you more bang for your buck at the end of the day.
 
I think this Ouimet guy has his head screwed on way straighter than Kinzel did, and finally someone realizes that from a business standpoint Intamin just doesn't make sense. So yes, I would say Cedar Fair has, for the most part, parted ways with Intamin.
 
Intricks said:
Since the construction of Millennium Force (which had teething issues due to a new lift system), it just seems as though any/all American built Intamins....
Click to expand...

The issues have pre-dated Millennium Force by about 5 years going back to the days of Superman: Escape from Krypton and Volcano to even their other rides like Escape from Pompeii and the other super splashes.

In terms of a business standpoint I'm sure Ouimet looked at all the Intamin installations and their histories at Cedar Fair and just simply said "**** that noise."
 
Intamin seemingly have bitten themselves in the ass a bit over the past few years (or longer?), they will build anything put on their plate, but they just don't seem prepared enough for what they're been asked to do, with every major coaster they build now it seems they have to go back a year later and fix what they've **** up!

They really need to just stick to what they are good at, Launch, Mega, Mega Lite, even the per-fab woodies. Although these coasters still have teething problems they seem to have a lot less problems than they do with their 'breaking boundaries' coasters.

B&M have never put out a coaster that they're not 100% satisfied with (maybe with the exception of air) and this is why everyone, not just Cedar Fair are choosing B&M over Intamin.
 
Their launch (Maverick, Storm Runner, Kingda Ka, Top Thrill Dragster, Xcelerator, Volcano) and Mega (i305, MF, Bizarro, RoS, Skyrush) have had long standing issues. From what we know their Mega-Lites haven't had issues, and El Toro's recent engine nuking is the first issue of any prefab woodie that I know of.
 
Cedar Fair has simply been burned a number of times by Intamin rides.

- Years of chronic downtime for TTD.
- Cable shearing on MF, TTD and Xcelerator. (And now I305's lift hill)
- Perilous Plunge jumped flume.
- Shoot the Rapids jumped flume.
- Wicked Twister and Possessed (when it was in Geauga Lake) downtime.

Shoot the Rapids especially is rumored to be the feather that broke the donkey's back with Cedar Fair - Intamin relations.
 
To quote a Director of Maintenance at a major theme park: "B&M is the Cadillac of the coaster world". Intamin's one selling point has (and probably always will be) price. As others have alluded to, however, just because something is cheaper upfront does not mean it will be cheaper after 10 years.
 
Hyde244 said:
- Cable shearing on MF, TTD and Xcelerator. (And now I305's lift hill)
.
Click to expand...

It's not a shredded cable that's keeping i305 down, there was an engine part that failed that needs to be custom made in Europe and shipped back to Virginia.
 
^ Correct, I should have worded that bit better.

rtotheizzo17 said:
To quote a Director of Maintenance at a major theme park: "B&M is the Cadillac of the coaster world". Intamin's one selling point has (and probably always will be) price. As others have alluded to, however, just because something is cheaper upfront does not mean it will be cheaper after 10 years.
Click to expand...
I would suggest that Intamin's attractiveness is primarily the out-of-the-box thinking and ability to push the envelop. B&M perfects, while Intamin innovates, such as we saw with the cable launch, magnetic launch, and height/speed race in the early 2000s.

That is to say, Intamin will use technology that has not been as readily tested as they can be on the cutting edge of design. B&M uses safe technology (train design, traditional lift hill) after it has been proven in the field.

Both have business models that differ on what an amusement park is looking for in their next attraction.
 
Hyde244 said:
^ Correct, I should have worded that bit better.

rtotheizzo17 said:
To quote a Director of Maintenance at a major theme park: "B&M is the Cadillac of the coaster world". Intamin's one selling point has (and probably always will be) price. As others have alluded to, however, just because something is cheaper upfront does not mean it will be cheaper after 10 years.
Click to expand...
I would suggest that Intamin's attractiveness is primarily the out-of-the-box thinking and ability to push the envelop. B&M perfects, while Intamin innovates, such as we saw with the cable launch, magnetic launch, and height/speed race in the early 2000s.

That is to say, Intamin will use technology that has not been as readily tested as they can be on the cutting edge of design. B&M uses safe technology (train design, traditional lift hill) after it has been proven in the field.

Both have business models that differ on what an amusement park is looking for in their next attraction.
Click to expand...

This is probably the best description of B&M vs Intamin I've ever heard. Intamin innovates, B&M perfects.
 
Hyde244 said:
^ Correct, I should have worded that bit better.

rtotheizzo17 said:
To quote a Director of Maintenance at a major theme park: "B&M is the Cadillac of the coaster world". Intamin's one selling point has (and probably always will be) price. As others have alluded to, however, just because something is cheaper upfront does not mean it will be cheaper after 10 years.
Click to expand...
I would suggest that Intamin's attractiveness is primarily the out-of-the-box thinking and ability to push the envelop. B&M perfects, while Intamin innovates, such as we saw with the cable launch, magnetic launch, and height/speed race in the early 2000s.

That is to say, Intamin will use technology that has not been as readily tested as they can be on the cutting edge of design. B&M uses safe technology (train design, traditional lift hill) after it has been proven in the field.

Both have business models that differ on what an amusement park is looking for in their next attraction.
Click to expand...

As a coaster fanboy you can keep telling yourself that. From a working park perspective their biggest selling point is price.

Also not sure how you can say B&M is not a innovative. I am fairly certain they were at the forefront of the inverted coaster (rcdb.com has them as opening the first one in 1992), stand ups had been around for about 11 years (sparingly) but B&M made them a staple of the early 90's, they also were step for step with Vekoma for the first flyer.

My point is B&M has shown the ability to be ahead of the curve on a lot of things. They also have prooven that they are a reliable builder and that comes with a price tag.
 
^ it is all a matter of what you are building. Intamin can cost $25 million just like other large steel coaster projects.
 
rtotheizzo17 said:
Hyde244 said:
^ Correct, I should have worded that bit better.

rtotheizzo17 said:
To quote a Director of Maintenance at a major theme park: "B&M is the Cadillac of the coaster world". Intamin's one selling point has (and probably always will be) price. As others have alluded to, however, just because something is cheaper upfront does not mean it will be cheaper after 10 years.
Click to expand...
I would suggest that Intamin's attractiveness is primarily the out-of-the-box thinking and ability to push the envelop. B&M perfects, while Intamin innovates, such as we saw with the cable launch, magnetic launch, and height/speed race in the early 2000s.

That is to say, Intamin will use technology that has not been as readily tested as they can be on the cutting edge of design. B&M uses safe technology (train design, traditional lift hill) after it has been proven in the field.

Both have business models that differ on what an amusement park is looking for in their next attraction.
Click to expand...

As a coaster fanboy you can keep telling yourself that. From a working park perspective their biggest selling point is price.

Also not sure how you can say B&M is not a innovative. I am fairly certain they were at the forefront of the inverted coaster (rcdb.com has them as opening the first one in 1992), stand ups had been around for about 11 years (sparingly) but B&M made them a staple of the early 90's, they also were step for step with Vekoma for the first flyer.

My point is B&M has shown the ability to be ahead of the curve on a lot of things. They also have prooven that they are a reliable builder and that comes with a price tag.
Click to expand...

I think you just countered your own argument. You say "how can B&M NOT be innovative..." To be innovative suggests making something TOTALLY new. Something never even thought of before. B&M took what was then a horrible idea in stand-up coasters and perfected it (as perfect as stand-ups can get at least). Then they took Vekoma's rough flyer idea and perfected it a couple years later. These weren't innovative ideas on B&Ms part. They took an idea and made it better.
 
First Inverted Coaster?
First Dive Coaster?
First Floorless Coaster?

According to multiple sources online (WIKI, RCDB) they were first. They are also staples in the amusement industry.

As far as innovative, they almost meet the Merrium-Webster definition (key point 1 and 2) " :
1: the introduction of something new
2: a new idea, method, or device : novelty "

Just like the iPhone was not the first cell phone, hell wasn't the first "smart phone", it was an innovation in the fact that it was a new idea that moved the industry forward. There is an entire pavillion at Epcot dedicated to this subject matter, its pretty insightful.
 
To a certain extent, every manufacturer will create a new product that they bring to market - they would be a lousy company otherwise.

Yes, B&M has created new products. However, the magnitude of their creations has been mostly focused on train design and riding positions, whether they were perfecting something already in the market or creating a new design all together.

Intamin in contrast has not only created new train designs, but hardware as well, such as:

- the cable lift
- hydraulic launches
- magnetic brake
- hydraulic restraints
- stadium seating

It is the wider span of technologies that Intamin has created that would make them appear to have delivered a greater variety of technologies and designs than B&M.

That is: Both B&M and Intamin have created new products (and perfected), but Intamin has a greater history.
 
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