Cedar Point | Top Thrill 2 | Triple Launch Renovation | 2024

[Fiender]

What exactly are the signs that this is Zamperla?
-El Toro Ryan's video and nebulous source.
-Zamperla claiming their trains/launches will be on one of the world's fastest rides

Neither of these is particularly concrete. "One of the world's fastest rides" could be marketing speak for "top ten percent of fastest rides" or something. It's very vague. And it's already been pointed out, but the shipping destination for Dragster's pieces is near both a Zamperla facility, and an Intamin facility.

Possible tin-foil hat territory, but I found it weird at the time that Intamin was being absolved of liability over "Top Thrill Dragster". Cedar Point was cleared of wrong doing in the big 2021 accident, which could conceivably have left Intamin on the hook. I'm not a lawyer, but it seemed logical to assume that, even if TTD got refurbed and rebranded, the damage caused by the original version would still be linked to Intamin. How did they swing getting themselves absolved of liability? If they are involved in the TTD refurb, could the removal of liability have been part of whatever deal they struck with Cedar Fair?

All of Zamperla's shortcomings aside, it just makes sense to stick with the original manufacturer for a project like this. The last time Cedar Point gave a coaster to someone else to work on was Steel Vengeance, which gave them tons of headaches.

 

[Snurt2theHark]

which could conceivably have left Intamin on the hook. I'm not a lawyer, but it seemed logical to assume that, even if TTD got refurbed and rebranded, the damage caused by the original version would still be linked to Intamin. How did they swing getting themselves absolved of liability?

I feel like the opposite would be the case, they go to Zamperla to sort out issues with TTD but in the process of modifications Intamin want liability absolved so they're not on the hook for any issues that the "reimagined" ride has. If say the support structure that was built back in 2003 started to show structural issues, the liability would stand with Cedar Fair/Zamperla, even if it was a problem created by Intamin.

 

[Fiender]

I feel like the opposite would be the case, they go to Zamperla to sort out issues with TTD but in the process of modifications Intamin want liability absolved so they're not on the hook for any issues that the "reimagined" ride has. If say the support structure that was built back in 2003 started to show structural issues, the liability would stand with Cedar Fair/Zamperla, even if it was a problem created by Intamin.

My assumption was that, legally speaking, this new attraction will not be "Top Thrill Dragster", but I have no idea how that would hold up in court.

 

[Yoris Kerkhoff]

ITT: Top Theseus Dragster

 

[bratcurry]

What exactly are the signs that this is Zamperla?
-El Toro Ryan's video and nebulous source.
-Zamperla claiming their trains/launches will be on one of the world's fastest rides

Neither of these is particularly concrete. "One of the world's fastest rides" could be marketing speak for "top ten percent of fastest rides" or something. It's very vague. And it's already been pointed out, but the shipping destination for Dragster's pieces is near both a Zamperla facility, and an Intamin facility.

You forgot that Intamin removed TTD from their website, which is also somewhat of at least an indication that they're not involved in the refurb.

 

[Matt N]

It’s also worth noting that Zamperla said that their new trains could withstand speeds of over 110mph, which I thought was quite specific and limits the scope of options considerably. Once you get over 110mph, your only options are Dodonpa, Red Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Kingda Ka and Formula Rossa, unless Zamperla are building a brand new coaster that goes over 110mph (which is unlikely).

Given that Zamperla are already doing work to Senzafiato, an Intamin Accelerator Coaster like Top Thrill Dragster that uses the same launch technology (albeit on a much smaller scale), I don’t think it’s entirely inconceivable that they could be in charge of the Top Thrill Dragster revamp. Particularly given Cedar Fair’s rocky history with Intamin, and staunch avoidance of the company at all costs since 2010…

In 2010, Six Flags took a huge gamble on a small, unproven company when revamping the Texas Giant. That gamble may be one of the most influential ever taken in the history of theme parks. My point is that although Zamperla’s current portfolio does not look to have given them much experience of taking on a huge project like this, anything can happen and the most unexpected companies can sometimes make a huge mark and surprise everyone.

 

[Fluorineer]

small, unproven company

This is not how I would describe Zamperla at all. They are a fairly big company with a well established track record of strengths (flat-rides) and weaknesses (any coaster beyond kiddie-size).

Frankly, Cedar Point will know much more about recent development and competency-improvements than an outsider like me does, but I want to add that developing new, improved and bigger ride-systems is not some sort of mystery box, but also just a skill with a measurable track-record, and there are companies like Vekoma that have proven themselves in their R&D-capabilities over and over, while other companies like Zamperla haven't.

From an outsiders perspective, I would prefer even someone like Zierer tbh.

 

[Matt N]

This is not how I would describe Zamperla at all. They are a fairly big company with a well established track record of strengths (flat-rides) and weaknesses (any coaster beyond kiddie-size).

Frankly, Cedar Point will know much more about recent development and competency-improvements than an outsider like me does, but I want to add that developing new, improved and bigger ride-systems is not some sort of mystery box, but also just a skill with a measurable track-record, and there are companies like Vekoma that have proven themselves in their R&D-capabilities over and over, while other companies like Zamperla haven't.

From an outsiders perspective, I would prefer even someone like Zierer tbh.

I was describing RMC circa 2010 in that particular statement, but in terms of coasters of this scale, I would argue that Zamperla are unproven to some extent. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the largest coasters they’ve built are Thunderbolt and its clones, which are 100-150ft tall and reach 50-60mph. Top Thrill Dragster is 420ft tall and reaches (reached?) 120mph. That’s a rather different ballgame to anything Zamperla have ever tackled before.

That’s not to say that they couldn’t surprise us, though; far stranger things have happened, and it does seem as though Zamperla is trying to strengthen their roller coaster credentials!

 

[dontbesuchamcbr]

I hope the spike won't be just straight or tisted but has something special. I wish it was a supersized Palindrome spike or beyond vertical.

 

[Rupert]

Here are better pictures of the site. At the rear end of the former launch segment, a gigantic footer is apparently being built, which could later serve as a stable foundation for the speculated spike element.

Source

The photos are really intriguing and of course I’m going to look at them, but part of me laments the fact people have drones and can capture every aspect of construction that might otherwise be secret - I feel slightly sorry for parks who want to build mystery and reveal things when ready.

I got really into forums in the days of Thirteen’s construction - part of the reason for hundreds of pages of discussion was that there was such a mystery surrounding the building so people’s imaginations really came into play. Obviously TTD isn’t in a building but we do lose some of the mystery with the incredible access from drones etc these days.

Of course it’s a two-sided coin as I do love seeing updates like this and thinking of what’s coming next (and it leads to fascinating posts like @Crazycoaster’s above, but hopefully you know what I mean.

It’s amazing they’re expanding TTD, but I’m not sure how needed it is. What I mean by that is it felt like a pretty perfect coaster before - it had a hell of a launch that by the time you were halfway through processing it, you were already creating the top hat, then all hell breaks loose on the downwards spiral and you’re most of the way through the brake run wondering what the hell just happened. So it didn’t really need expanding, just fixing, but the closure and necessary work gives the park a good opportunity to effectively create a new version of the coaster with all the associated marketing and uptick in visitors you’d expect - so the required work becomes an opportunity to do something more, even if not strictly necessary beyond making the launch safe.

Long post to say part of me liked having the mystery without the drone shots, and it was a pretty perfect coaster that doesn’t really need any new elements though they’ll be cool to have.

 

[Hyde]

So, why do I think it will be a straight spike, rather than a spiral? Well we just have to look back at the footers for the alleged 'Draken Spire' coaster that Busch Gardens were going to make.

Calling it now: "Iron Draken Spike"

Seriously, if Iron Dragon survives this, it will be a miracle.

 

[catsounds]

The photos are really intriguing and of course I’m going to look at them, but part of me laments the fact people have drones and can capture every aspect of construction that might otherwise be secret - I feel slightly sorry for parks who want to build mystery and reveal things when ready.

I got really into forums in the days of Thirteen’s construction - part of the reason for hundreds of pages of discussion was that there was such a mystery surrounding the building so people’s imaginations really came into play. Obviously TTD isn’t in a building but we do lose some of the mystery with the incredible access from drones etc these days.

Of course it’s a two-sided coin as I do love seeing updates like this and thinking of what’s coming next (and it leads to fascinating posts like @Crazycoaster’s above, but hopefully you know what I mean.

It’s amazing they’re expanding TTD, but I’m not sure how needed it is. What I mean by that is it felt like a pretty perfect coaster before - it had a hell of a launch that by the time you were halfway through processing it, you were already creating the top hat, then all hell breaks loose on the downwards spiral and you’re most of the way through the brake run wondering what the hell just happened. So it didn’t really need expanding, just fixing, but the closure and necessary work gives the park a good opportunity to effectively create a new version of the coaster with all the associated marketing and uptick in visitors you’d expect - so the required work becomes an opportunity to do something more, even if not strictly necessary beyond making the launch safe.

Long post to say part of me liked having the mystery without the drone shots, and it was a pretty perfect coaster that doesn’t really need any new elements though they’ll be cool to have.

Are the drone shots not most likely permitted by the park? (Generally asking, I didn't think they could legally do that without permision)

Thirteen's construction might have benifited being leaked with drone pics because the only mystery surrounding thirteen led to nothing but dissapointment that got spoiled by a very cringe news segment

 

[MLDesigns]

^Not entirely sure of the legality of airspace, but the zoomed-in pictures taken from a drone/airplane from over the water seem to be fine. Would almost guarantee those most recent ones (of the cofferdam work) over the site were not legally obtained lol.

 

[Hyde]

Are the drone shots not most likely permitted by the park? (Generally asking, I didn't think they could legally do that without permision)

Airspace over the park is private property and (unfortunately) illegal if caught. Photos taken from over the water would be in perfectly public airspace, however.

 

[Stevie]

Airspace over the park is private property and (unfortunately) illegal if caught. Photos taken from over the water would be in perfectly public airspace, however.

All airspace is jurisdiction of the FAA. No one owns any rights to the airspace. You do have to notify the FAA if you are flying a drone, but there is no “requesting permission”.

 

[Indy]

For elaboration/clarification:

Source

 

[Stevie]

For elaboration/clarification:
View attachment 23919
Source

While corporate policy should be respected, it's not law.

 

[roomraider]

While corporate policy should be respected, it's not law.

They could sue you for trespass though. It would be up to them to prove various criteria but it would certainly be possible.

A quick look suggests these criteria would be looked at


It's certainly in that grey area.

 

[Hyde]

While corporate policy should be respected, it's not law.

To game it out if helpful:
- This drone was most likely flown while standing on Cedar Point property (that would include beach access, parking lot, essentially everything on the peninsula), for instance.
- If it was flown from outside Cedar Point property, it was most likely flown outside of line-of-sight, which breaks FAA law.
- FAA airspace generally starts at 400-500 ft. (it's a murky gray area), with an assumption that area below is technically private flying area. Or at the very least, not 100%, definitely freely navigable airspace. The drone shots were definitely in that range, and over Cedar Point property, and could incur the wrath of Cedar Point legal. (If helpful context, took amateur flying lessons growing up, with express instruction to not fly over Cedar Point, but around. )

So that's all to say, I appreciate these drone operators' heroism and their contribution to the greater coastering good. God speed, rebels.

 

[Hyde]

Sorry for the double post - was going down memory lane, and found this great video footage from TTD's original Media Day. Helps appreciate the original layout and train design!