God

[Pokemaniac]

^I think that's somewhere along the same lane as "religion vs. faith" ideas.

I have no troubles accepting that somewhere along the timeline, perhaps at the start, or out of pure randomness, at the end, some all-powerful, or just very clumsy, something started the chain events that eventually brought us here. That way, you could put me as a "believer", even though it's only because that is a theory as plausible as the rest of them. As we humans see it, everything has to have a start and an end, and according to the same way of thought, something has to have started the chain. And that something may fall under the definition of "God", even if it isn't a bearded wise guy from the skies.

However, even if I accept the possibility of a creator, that doesn't make me religious. I still think that organised religion is (insert insult), and even if I believe that someone/-thing created the universe, that doesn't give me any reasons to believe in what Christianity, Islam, Judaism or whatever other religion guys throw at me. OK, even if we established the fact that there was a creator, why would he be just like (insert religion) describes him? And why should I believe he can see us, have influence on our lives, and give us peace ever after when we die, just because he created everything? Did he really have control of what happened after everything went kaboom? Did he intend on making a universe? Was he just a random guy among billions, who just, perhaps accidentally, found a way to create a new set of laws of physics, thus destroying everything that existed before? Is the creation of a new universe something that just happens from time to time?

So even if I accept that something started the chain, that doesn't make me less of an atheist. I may believe that something started it all, perhaps even a sentient being, but I still can't see any reason to believe in something all-powerful.

But still, I accept and understand that some people do. But I'm unable to see why. And I accept that as well.

 

[Slash]

^I think that's somewhere along the same lane as "religion vs. faith" ideas.

I have no troubles accepting that somewhere along the timeline, perhaps at the start, or out of pure randomness, at the end, some all-powerful, or just very clumsy, something started the chain events that eventually brought us here. That way, you could put me as a "believer", even though it's only because that is a theory as plausible as the rest of them. As we humans see it, everything has to have a start and an end, and according to the same way of thought, something has to have started the chain. And that something may fall under the definition of "God", even if it isn't a bearded wise guy from the skies.

However, even if I accept the possibility of a creator, that doesn't make me religious. I still think that organised religion is (insert insult), and even if I believe that someone/-thing created the universe, that doesn't give me any reasons to believe in what Christianity, Islam, Judaism or whatever other religion guys throw at me.

I see what you mean but why do you dislike religion that is organised? There is nothing wrong with it, in fact, there are HUGE benefits from it, from charity giving to helping the needy. Just because there are extremists in the world doesn't mean organised religion is bad.

When you say " If I believe that someone/ -thing created the universe, that doesn't give me any reasons to believe in what Christianity, Islam, Judaism or whatever other religion guys throw at me." surely you will agree that there ideas may be skeptical but the whole moral side of each religion is a good basis to base your life?

OK, even if we established the fact that there was a creator, why would he be just like (insert religion) describes him? And why should I believe he can see us, have influence on our lives, and give us peace ever after when we die, just because he created everything? Did he really have control of what happened after everything went kaboom? Did he intend on making a universe? Was he just a random guy among billions, who just, perhaps accidentally, found a way to create a new set of laws of physics, thus destroying everything that existed before? Is the creation of a new universe something that just happens from time to time?

There is no need for you to believe what a religion says, chances are that won't be 100% correct anyway. The rest of what you say is down to what you think or believe that is why it is called faith.

So even if I accept that something started the chain, that doesn't make me less of an atheist. I may believe that something started it all, perhaps even a sentient being, but I still can't see any reason to believe in something all-powerful.

But still, I accept and understand that some people do. But I'm unable to see why. And I accept that as well.

That is probably the best statement I've seen in this topic.

 

[Ormerod]

I think Evolution sounds a bit more realistic to me. My opinion would be that Religions are based on fear and power and were designed to keep people in such an order.

What about the notion that evolution was a process set in place by God?

Just because you believe in evolution doesn't mean you can't have faith in God. They're not mutually exclusive ideas.

I believe in the theory of evolution, I just don't think it was anything God related that sparked the fuse.

 

[Ormerod]

I never stated it as fact, just opinion. And it was with respect to the thought that religion seems a little supernatural for me to take literally. On the other hand I can see how the process of Evolution could have took places millions of years ago. Science backs up a lot of it.

 

[Ormerod]

I don't have any clue what was before the Big Bang. If God was real, what came before God?

Nobody can really tell you, that is most definately an unsolved case!

 

[furie]

So what happened before the Big Bang?

We don't know, but my Sims don't understand what happened before "The Big Boot Up" either

Facetious response, sorry.

I know that there is a theory that it's possible in this universe, to create a "sub universe" in a lab. Theoretical physicists think that they can mimic the conditions of the big bang in a lab. This would obviously not good, and they don't really know what would happen. Some think that it would be a universe of really odd properties though, and that it wouldn't be anything like we experience.

Other physicists think that new universes are being created all over the place.

The question is, if crazy_furie in a lab creates a new universe, that evolves life, does it make me God?

Science can't answer the question, but there are many reasons and ways the universe could have been created. God is just one of them, none of them are provable so it's a pointless argument in my opinion.

The question is one of sentience of the universe. Over billions of years, God has shown an interest in only a tiny percentage of the time since the universe (and even the Earth) has been around.

What was he doing the rest of the time? Why is it that it was 16,000 years after the evolution of homo sapiens before he decided to get involved. Then when he did, he royally screwed up the religion part of it and he's been fixing it ever since.

Logically, for me, God as a divine intervention doesn't work. If God does not intervene, then there can be no proof of intervention and therefore no belief in him - QED. For me

For me it's looking at the big picture of our history as a race. It's looking at all the wonderous possibilities that the universe contains - naturally. It's looking at the infinitely complex system that makes up a simple life-form like us. Life is massively complicated and we are unable to comprehend it. There's no reason to add a God into that as well to stir things up. Most of our existence is a mystery to us, but not every mystery will be solved by the answer "God". I suspect that in three million years time (if we still live as any kind of race), we'll still be looking to solve mysteries, but God still won't be the ultimate answer.

I do understand why people personally think and believe. It's just that I find it impossible for the above reasons - there's an explanation for everything, but just because I can't explain something doesn't mean have to believe in something unexplainable to write it all off.

 

[furie]

The point I was trying to make, Phil, is that there IS no answer.

PMSL!

Awesome! After thirty or forty 20,000 word essays on this, I think we broke you :lol:

Yes, I agree, there is no answer. I was just putting forward (above) where I stand on it

 

[Stone Cold]

I see what you mean but why do you dislike religion that is organised? There is nothing wrong with it, in fact, there are HUGE benefits from it, from charity giving to helping the needy. Just because there are extremists in the world doesn't mean organised religion is bad.

Actually, there's plenty wrong with it. Namely the fact that is tries to stifle intelligent and rational scientific debate with ancient superstition and unquestioning obedience. It's an organisation that enables intolerance to the point of Middle Eastern societies stoning adulterous women to death right through to Mid West Americans lynching homosexuals.

Furthermore, it's influence can be widely felt in governments and education systems throughout the world, where it forwards it's agenda of only teaching the church's word at the expense of a balanced education or indeed allowing people to think for themselves and question the world around them.

Forget 9/11, because whilst it was a tragic incident, is fairly minor compared to the devastation that organised religion can bring to this world. The biggest example of which is the mind-numbingly brain-dead stance that the Catholic church occupies on the use of condoms. As most of Africa is Catholic, sexually transmitted diseases are rife because they believe if they use a condom, they'll spend eternity in hell, and compared to that, what's the danger in risking the tranmission of AIDS?

When you say " If I believe that someone/ -thing created the universe, that doesn't give me any reasons to believe in what Christianity, Islam, Judaism or whatever other religion guys throw at me." surely you will agree that there ideas may be skeptical but the whole moral side of each religion is a good basis to base your life?

Ah, the good old bible, which says both "an eye for an eye" and to "turn the other cheek". With such conflicting moral stances, it must be confusing to pick your way through the symbolic nature of the Bible and its maze of contradictory morals.

Thus, the only option you have is to assume every single teaching of the church is true, or to pick and choose the ones you believe to be morally sound, in which case, your moral compass is being affected by influences outside of the religion (otherwise how else do you tell what is and isn't morally osund?). This is (in my opinion at least) how it should be, but is serves to highlight exactly the point that religion isn't especially moral.

To further this, I would point out that it is possible to be extremely moral and also an athiest. Humanism (specifically secular humanism) shows that you can have sound moral beliefs and reject the supernatural nonsense that's associated with the church.

I don’t really see what the comparison you’re making is…a bit more realistic than God? Evolution isn’t “more realistic” than God because the existence of evolution has no effect on the existence of God...

Of course evolution is more realistic than God. In fact, whilst not conclusively proved, the theory of evolution is pretty close to being proved. God however, is very far away from being determined in either His nature or existence. Of course, even when (and yes, I suppose "if") evolution is conclusively proved, how it all began (Big Bang or otherwise) is still a mystery. It's the equivalent of despite being able to prove that mixing potassium and bromine together produces a chemical explosion acknowledging that we're no closer to understanding where elements come from.



Oh and in order to get back to your last post of epic proportions, it seems quite ironic to me that you accuse me of not being able to enter into serious debate or discussion about a given subject when your method of discussion is just posting vast, inaccessible blocks of text, that with increasing verbosity explore every single point made and yet somehow manages to miss the bigger picture. All I was initially doing was pointing about a direct inconsistency where you said "There is no reason to believe in X" then followed by "I recognise other's beliefs in X". That simply doesn't work.

Incidentally, seeing as i'm being accused of being a "sarcastic ass" who does nothing but mock your posts, can I suggest that this is a better method than coming over as an arrogant bully, my posts do have some serious underlying points, that perhaps require you to use your brain a bit to make the connections, rather than have the points hammered home repeatedly as per your preferred method. Perhaps we should have a serious discussion on MSN about your beliefs, because whilst it never ceases to amaze me that you actually believe in "God", I'm getting more and more curious to find out how you actually define God.

 

[davidm]

Richard Dawkins is my God! (tongue firmly in cheek!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8049711.stm

 

[Pingu on drugs]

I could write a 20 page essay on this debate, but I will keep this short. As much as I would like there to be something bigger out there than what we know, I do not think there is a God or creator or anything of that type. We are living organisms, the fact that we are advanced means we can think about things like God, and to explain how everything was created, we made the idea of a God up. Religion has caused more problems than it has helped them, and I think religion is a small downfall of the human race. There is no God, now stop worrying and get on with your life.

 

[kimahri]

GRAND MARQUIS DECARABIA, PRAISE BE TO THEE!!

 

[Jake]

Haha, I haven't actually voted in this even though this thread is older than humanity itself.

My answer is... no.

 

[nadroJ]

Re:

Not so much.

Practically every religion would have me burned and branded a witch anyway .

Jake, you totally already answered sweetie <3

 

[tks]

He said he hadn't voted.. Neither had I until today.