God

[Sam]

Actually, there is nothing to prove he isn't real. Where did the big bang come from?

I've said it before and I'll say it again discussions about religion existing or not are pointless because those who believe try to convince those who don't that they're right and vice versa. No one is actually going to change the way they think so it's a waste of ****ing time.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

It's not a waste of time, Sam. Because you can see perspectives you previously did not.

My life and experiance in this world, so far, teaches me that God cannot exist. But I'm not stupid enough to ignore the fact that there are people who's life and experiance teach them that God must exist. And I'd hope they aren't so stupid to ignore my experiance, either.

There is equal evidence to suggest God is real or not real. Proof and truth is personal to experiance. If you think that your poster falling off the wall when you pray is a sign from God, it's just as valid.

More atheists need to realise that "truth" is more often than not subjective and relative, by definition.


I'd rather live my life in a way I can see results in this world, than stick to rules which I think have negative inpact in this world and only for benefits of an afterlife. Regardless, there is mixed proof in the Bible (like everything in the Bible) that living your life not by how God teaches will send you to hell. You will be judged after you die, is the general belief of most intelegent Christians, based on the person you are, not what you've done. God will know if you're truly sorry for your actions.
Although, In the Bible, there is a lot of punishment for people living... As apose to the Qur'an which is mostly punishment after you die. I dunno about you, but I know as a skeptic when I'd prefer to get punished and who by. An almighty creator, or other humans? It's interesting that whilst the Qur'an is a lot more violent than the Bible, there is little or no violence directed at people to kill other people - unlike the bible, which is riddled with it from front to back. New Testiment included.

Living your life with good intention is ALL that matters, in the eyes of most Christians and Muslims. I don't know about Jews, the Old Testiment is so sick I am intrigued by their thoughts in a modern day situation.

 

[kimahri]

Where did the big bang come from?

Some thing big and explosive. the chances are the big bang happend before and will happen again.

either way. if there is an equivilent to a god. it'll probably the search engine google.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Some thing big and explosive.

The big bang usually suggests before something there was nothing, you're suggesting some thing existed before it - you're actually contributing to proof of God.

It is interesting to point out that in Islam, the big bang is not ruled out - like most medical and scientific discoveries of our time. Christianity is a little trapped in the past, the newer Islam has in it's favour scientific "proof" in that things were written in the Qur'an that, at the time, man simply could not have known. More so than the Bible.

I cannot for the life of me work out why belief in God contradicts the big bang, or evolution, etc.

Unless you're a young earth creationist, that is. And take the Bible's words 100% literally and seriously. But to do that, you need to learn Hebrew. How many Christians speak Hebrew? Hmmm.

 

[kimahri]

Some thing big and explosive.

The big bang usually suggests before something there was nothing, you're suggesting some thing existed before it - you're actually contributing to proof of God.

People have said there was nothing before it some have said there was. thing is if there was something theres nothing left cause it went boom.

Also I've noticed that alot of people have been point towards christianity and catholic and stuff and only now that joeys pointed out islam why not think about them?

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Because nobody cares to know enough about Islam to even know it's relevent?

The Qur'an is to the new testiment what the new testiment was to the old testiment. Many do not realise this.

 

[danielfitzgerald99]

I believe in the big bang, evoloution and God. What does that make me?

 

[furie]

I cannot for the life of me work out why belief in God contradicts the big bang, or evolution, etc.

Neither can I Joey. I'm happy for somebody to say "you can't explain how the big bang happened - perhaps it was God!" I'd accept that as a valid statement - it wouldn't convince me that God exists, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand as it's just yet another unproven theory.

A lot of Christian scientists take this stance. They believe in god, and yet also believe in the big bang, evolution, etc. They just don't accept scientific coincidences, they attribute things to God instead. The big bang didn't 'just happen' - God pressed the button, and the universe expanded according to a plan he had predefined. He wanted life, so he combined the correct chemicals in the primordial soup and created the basic strands of life, then let it continue along on it's own again. He just steps in on occasion to give things a helping hand, and push us in the right direction.

It's not a view I agree with, but at least it's a view which looks at explaining how science and God can both exist.

Sam, Joey is right, the conversation is worth having. Sometimes you need to put to rest misconceptions and misunderstandings. F.A.S.T. believed that God existed because of a completely inaccurate understanding of the way the world works. I'm probably not going to convince him God doesn't exist, but hopefully he'll have a better understanding of how things really work - rather than a more medieval view of the world.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I find that most people who do not believe in evolution do not understand it... In fact, most believers do not understand it.

My mother, who believes in evolution, said "an attribute will only survive if it's essential to the life of the species." Erm, no. It will continue on if it's passed on. It's just more likely it will continue on if it's beneficial, but it doesn't have to be essential. It's possible that hindering things can get passed on via evolution, too. Walking upright for humans has provided quite a problem. Human childbirth horrendous compared to our relatives.

People who believe things they don't understand or know about. Eugh.

 

[Sam]

No, I think I am right.

Firstly this is a very delicate subject and people can get offended very easily.

Secondly if you believe in something as strongly as people feel about religion nothing you read is going to change your mind. Anyone who has argued against religion in this thread I have just seen their post as utter bollocks- that's no dis-respect to the people who have posted, I just will not ever change my mind. It hasn't enlightened me or given me a different perspective at all.

 

[Ian]

I agree Sam, I think that posts that believe in God are utter bollocks. And I won't change my mind.

God exists only as faith and not as an actual being or thing.

I believe in faith but I don't believe in an actual God.

I can prove something exists by seeing it and giving reason behind it. For example, I exist because I'm posting this right now and you exist because you're reading it.

Faith exists because I know people that have faith in 'God', although God herself doesnt exist outside the mind because she has never been proven.

 

[furie]

It hasn't enlightened me or given me a different perspective at all.

You're clearly intelligent Sam, yet you believe that the world was created in 7 days and that evolution is a fallacy dreamed up by scientists?

I can understand a belief in something which cannot be proven, but not a disbelief of something for which there is overwhelming evidence.

If you do believe in evolution and all that other scientific mumbo jumbo, and God, then why? It's because at some point somebody enlightened you and gave you a different perspective. Science did it. We have people here who don't understand the basic proven theories which govern our own solar system, and use that as a reason why God must exist. Hopefully we have enlightened those people to understand things they previously didn't. Hopefully they will now have a slightly different perspective on the wonder of Gods world (that it works based on scientific rules, and that the sun isn't God's lightbulb, doesn't revolve around the Earth and that rain actually ISN'T angel's tears).

If you're in a happy place Sam, then fine, but some people really need to understand some of the basic laws that govern us - whether you believe in God or not, those laws are in place. Apples fall from trees due to gravity, light has mass and dogs will always stick their heads out of windows of a car. God may be the force behind these laws, but they exist and create a world which is possible for us to exist in.

Also, people surely can't get offended? The only reason to feel offended that somebody is saying God doesn't exist, is if you have doubts about it yourself. If you truly believe in God, then that's the end of it. Belief just is - I just want people to not use belief as an excuse to disbelieve proof; just to understand that you can have other answers than God, as I understand that God may also be an answer...

 

[Screaming Coasters]

About that pre- Big Bang stuff..
Me and my friends actually had that discussion a few weeks ago, and one of them had a good explanation about it. I just can't remember it in it's full, but I will ask him when he returns from his little trip Sun/Mon. I think he had a link to a site that explained it pretty good.

Awesome, it'd be an interesting read!

Also to clarify on the Religion thing.
The true teaching following the Bible basically says that you don't go anywhere when you die. In the Bible, the Heavens are made up of angels, there are no humans up there. When you die, you are at rest. The whole concept of Heaven has been so commercialized and if you actually read into it, what we are lead to believe is totally false. There is no such thing as Hell either, thats also the false teachings of the Catholic Church which is by far the most commercialized faith there is.. (I don't mean to offend anyone if they are Catholic)

 

[CedarPoint6]

You're clearly intelligent Sam, yet you believe that the world was created in 7 days and that evolution is a fallacy dreamed up by scientists?

You can believe in God, but not take either of these things at face value. I won't get into it, however, because I don't expect people to listen so I won't bother to type it out.

I can see where Sam can be offended even with the what you said, Phil. To me, it's almost as a "I can't believe you wouldn't believe this, which is true." In the back of my mind, that kind of thought is always there, but I wouldn't expect everyone to think the same way, no matter how much I pray about it.

 

[Sam]

I was offended actually. I'll post my response when I get home on Saturday.

But yes, I wasn't impressed at that post at all Phil, I think someone in your position on the site should really think what they're saying before posting such offensive, insensitive, one sided bollocks.

 

[Snoo]

I hope you don't do the same thing that your accusing him Sam.

 

[Ian]

Money, politics and religion are three subjects that should never be discussed.

And furie is right to post his opinion, just like you are, Samuel.

 

[Screaming Coasters]

On the existence thing...

We all use electricity right? Right, but we cant see it yet we benefit from it's product. If you believe in God, we can't see him yet the view is taken that we benefit from his product.

 

[Ian]

On the existence thing...

We all use electricity right? Right, but we cant see it yet we benefit from it's product. If you believe in God, we can't see him yet the view is taken that we benefit from his product.

It's proof, not existance.

We can prove electricity exists.

 

[Screaming Coasters]

But could you prove it if there wasn't a final product?

Science is based on Proof of an outcome and so religion is pretty much the same.