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Kings Island | Orion | B&M Giga Coaster

Hmm I kind of see it both ways.

On one hand, the drop height is obviously more important than the height it is from the ground. I mean, do you ride it or watch it from a distance?

On the other, it’s a big investment with a large enthusiast community - why not got the extra, extra mile to please the fans? Two reasons really. Most obviously, primary cost. Secondly, it starts getting a bit ‘coaster wars’-y (secondary costs). If every giga has to be unique or the next best giga then costs are undoubtedly going to be higher and higher. There has to be a point where it gets scaled back a notch.

On my third hand, I don’t really buy the idea that Mr. Enthusiast is going to share a hugely different opinion than Mr. GP. The faster, the taller, the steeper, the more forceful, the more unique, the most intense... the better - from everyone’s perspective.

Finally, on my peg leg, I trust the guys building the thing have some idea of what they’re doing.
 
Nitefly said:
On my third hand, I don’t really buy the idea that Mr. Enthusiast is going to share a hugely different opinion than Mr. GP. The faster, the taller, the steeper, the more forceful, the more unique, the most intense... the better - from everyone’s perspective.
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You have a good point, but look at Steel Vengeance. Probably the best coaster ever built from an enthusiast perspective. But 2018 was a tremendously dissapointing year for Cedar Point in terms of attendance. Nobody came to ride it. I think you can make a case that Steel Vengeance looks/rides "too much" from the perspective of the GP.
With Kings Island, that park is located in a very suburban area, an area with lots of young families moving in. It is local families that make up most of Kings Island's attendance. I think Cedar Fair wants to build exciting rides for Kings Island, but rides that aren't "too much" for the families that are the primary demographic.
 
I wish they would have made it taller, but also shorter in length to keep the same budget. They could have really packed a whammy in there.
 
I don't think anybody is questioning that it will be a "bad" addition. I think everyone can agree that the GP will love it. That's a win for Kings Island there (although I would be interested to hear what the locals think of this compared to Millennium Force... you know they'll go there).

I feel like if this coaster came out 10 years ago (or maybe around the time Leviathan debuted), it wouldn't get as much flak (although I can't speak for any enthusiast's impressions for when Leviathan was being built; that was "before my time" as an enthusiast so what do I know). The problem is that Fury came out and set the bar for what a giga could be beyond just height and speed: more interesting elements, unique shaping, obviously length, etc.

Now, I don't mind if Orion is among the shorter gigas, whether that's height or length (in this case both lol). My issue with this ride is the wasted potential on some of these elements. If you don't have much room to play with, you better make those elements count.

The treble clef? Yeah they screwed up on that. They easily (maybe not "easily" but I'd like to think so) could've adjusted the shaping of that and provide some awesome sideways airtime. If Fury could do it, why doesn't this one? It's just ordinary here.

I'm pretty indifferent about the big overbank. It looks interesting, but it'll probably be some gentle floater and nothing crazy. Now that I think about, they probably could've gone for a more intense overbank and just do a Stengel dive, kinda like Mako.

The first drop and two airtime hills will be great. I'll give you that. Can't go wrong with those honestly. "But trims!", ehh, it'll be fine. I haven't had a huge issue with any trims on B&M hypers/gigas.

The ending of the ride looks weak. That final turn will be okay but that helix just doesn't look all that exciting, it reminds of Fury's helix towards the end. I mean, at least put an extra bunny hill at the end. Have it do something.

Everyone is ripping on this ride but gigas have always been held to such high standards (even higher after Fury). Even with a lot of criticism, it'll still be a fun really. I will say this though: I'm not expecting Orion to be better than most of the B&M hypers I've done. I rate most of my B&M hypers above Fury anyway, and I don't see this being nearly as good as Fury. That's why I can easily say I'm more excited for Candymonium than Orion.

When it comes to Kings Island's lineup, I'd probably like Orion more than Diamondback, but that's because of Diamondback's rattle more than anything lol. But I can't see this topping Mystic Timbers as best ride in the park. No way.
 
It's funny, me and my sons were just talking about why does KI always come up short? Pun intended. We jokingly been calling it the no fly zone for years, because air time is limited, at best. I love the color, I love the looks of the drop and turnaround. Buuut - think I'm going out of my way to ride Gwazi this year. (I think for the Live, actually)
 
Antinos said:
I recently saw a photo of Orion from the top of Diamondback and thought Orion looked really short. My initial thought was that Diamondback is sitting on higher ground, which is actually true...but then I started thinking about the overall ride heights. One would think of a near 100 foot height difference between a hyper coaster and a giga coaster, but Orion is 287 feet tall and Diamondback is 230 feet tall. There is a 57 foot height difference between the rides which is further minimized by the changes in ground level under each ride. This is yet another perspective which views this ride as laughable.

Seriously, I cannot get past how Orion seems like such a lazy design. All they needed to do was stretch the brake run 13ish feet (assuming the lift is a 45° slope, which it's probably slightly less) and they would have shut everybody up.
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The park intentionally designed the ride to be at the height it is so that it can use the terrain. If they made the ride any taller it would have missed the small valley. It’s 95% as tall as Levithan and I don’t see any people crying about how it looks almost the same size as Behemoth. The ride looks way bigger when you’re seeing it in person.
 
hendrixmarshall said:
It's funny, me and my sons were just talking about why does KI always come up short? Pun intended. We jokingly been calling it the no fly zone for years, because air time is limited, at best. I love the color, I love the looks of the drop and turnaround. Buuut - think I'm going out of my way to ride Gwazi this year. (I think for the Live, actually)
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Idk, Mystic Timbers is definitely an elite coaster. Everyone was talking about how awful it is, etc. when it was announced and now it’s the best ride in the park. Funny how no one ever learns. But it’s not an Intamin or RMC, so everyone on here is going to pretend they hate it.
 
I'm sorry, but since when do we hate B&M? Weren't we talking a few posts earlier how Fury and even all the hypers were extremely good coasters?
Saying that this coaster isn't that impressive considering all the external factors, isn't in no way an attempt against B&M as a brand, I reckon...

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Our own personal taste - the kiddie flume ride is better than Timbers. Has nothing to do with RMC or Intamin. As coasters got more and more crazy during the coaster war period. We just needed more and more of an adrenaline rush to satisfy the craving is all. I love KI's layout and ambience, but its not a thrill seeker destination for us. More like something to do on our way to KK or Dollywood. Additionally, I don't pretend anything. I have several opinions that are direct opposite of enthusiasts' norm. I like what I like, and its fun to talk about. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean anything other than they have a different perspective/taste and/or background.
 
BansheeBerry said:
The park intentionally designed the ride to be at the height it is so that it can use the terrain. If they made the ride any taller it would have missed the small valley. It’s 95% as tall as Levithan and I don’t see any people crying about how it looks almost the same size as Behemoth. The ride looks way bigger when you’re seeing it in person.
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Ok, but the pullout of the first drop does not sit perfectly in the valley. Actually, that pullout would be better seated if the ride was actually 13 feet taller. This is clearly visible from the webcam.

To reiterate now that the KI fanboys have arrived, Orion will be an objectively good coaster, and the drop will be one of the best in the world. The ride still features what appears to be very lazy design. The park heard all the KI fanboys clamoring for years and did the bare minimum to satisfy the goons.
 
KIFan said:
Idk, Mystic Timbers is definitely an elite coaster. Everyone was talking about how awful it is, etc. when it was announced and now it’s the best ride in the park. Funny how no one ever learns. But it’s not an Intamin or RMC, so everyone on here is going to pretend they hate it.
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Don’t know if you’ve read my post (only four spots above yours), but I literally just talked about how Mystic Timbers is indeed the best ride in the park.

Please let me know who hates the ride because it’s not Intamin or RMC. Most people on here seem to like it, so I don’t know how you’ve settled on that claim.


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Antinos said:
Ok, but the pullout of the first drop does not sit perfectly in the valley. Actually, that pullout would be better seated if the ride was actually 13 feet taller. This is clearly visible from the webcam.

To reiterate now that the KI fanboys have arrived, Orion will be an objectively good coaster, and the drop will be one of the best in the world. The ride still features what appears to be very lazy design. The park heard all the KI fanboys clamoring for years and did the bare minimum to satisfy the goons.
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Goons? Someone is a goon because they like an amusement park? I also don't understand why you keep calling it Rob Decker and the several other designers involved in this project lazy. Given the limitations they were given they seemed to produce a good product. Most likely they weren't allowed to build a massive coaster due to the fact Cedar Fair didn't want to take away from Fury 325, because of that we got Orion. Yes its not the biggest giga coaster but their design isn't lazy. It features several elements that will likely provide a great experience, the 300ft drop, speed hill, wave turn & ampersand styled helix.
 
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giphy.webp

You know it's serious when people start name dropping the designers!
 

KIFan said:
Idk, Mystic Timbers is definitely an elite coaster. Everyone was talking about how awful it is, etc. when it was announced and now it’s the best ride in the park.
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Last I checked it was the KI fanboys who were booing at the announcement because it wasn't a giga. Mystic Timbers is a very good ride but calling it elite is a bit of a stretch. There's a much better GCI about 5 hours away too.
 
BansheeBerry said:
Goons? Someone is a goon because they like an amusement park? I also don't understand why you keep calling it Rob Decker and the several other designers involved in this project lazy. Given the limitations they were given they seemed to produce a good product. Most likely they weren't allowed to build a massive coaster due to the fact Cedar Fair didn't want to take away from Fury 325, because of that we got Orion. Yes its not the biggest giga coaster but their design isn't lazy. It features several elements that will likely provide a great experience, the 300ft drop, speed hill, wave turn & ampersand styled helix.
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Considering the scale of this ride is 300+ feet, increasing the height by only 13 feet is a relatively minor adjustment, especially considering how they underutilized Firehawk's old plot. I can describe multiple ways to shift a small portion of the ride by one car length to give the ride that extra height needed to shut everybody up.

And I will continue to state that it's a lazy design. Building off of @CoasterMac305's post, consider if the first floaterbank was an outside banked hill, or consider if it was actually profiled like a real wave turn. Instead, riders will just float on their sides between two drawn out transitions - it'll give a sensation that is not what the fanboys are expecting. Consider if the turnaround banked outwards first to provide some snap into the dive, or consider if it actually leveled out a bit while rolling like what GCI does on their turns. Instead, the ride just slowly and generically rolls and dives. I can keep typing about other areas of the ride where there could/should/would be Fury-like subtleties that'd greatly improve the ride, but instead the designers didn't include these on the ride. Based on what I can see in the track profile with my own two eyes, the ride features extremely generic, vanilla, less exciting elements compared to modern benchmarks... AKA lazy design... designing a ride just to have a ride.

Orion doesn't have to beat Fury's stats, but it lacks any and all subtleties that make Fury as good as it is.

Finally, @Pear is right - Mystic Timbers is a great ride, but calling it elite is a stretch when Thunderhead is relatively nearby.
 
Ok, I think it's obvious that KI avoided going to extremes (both regarding intensity and novelties). You may like this or not. But given that choice, let's look at its potential: Just seeing the onride animation, I actually find that the ride has a well-balanced composition of elements (that's maybe part of what you call "boring" but I do see some quality here). Together with an ass-kicking drop, high speed and smooth dynamics I think it could really be a good experience. However, after all only riding it will prove it.
 
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