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So then, Prometheus...

I've been a huge fan of Alien ever since I was 10 and saw the original on TV. It was so fantastically dark, terrifying and beautifully made. It's a film I've watched countless times and apart from some ropey special effects (limit of the age unfortunately), it's almost as perfect as film making can get.

Then came along the gung-ho Aliens and a massively strong sequel. Again, quite possibly the perfect action films with strong characters, constantly moving, tense plot and a massive crescendo to go out on.

Alien[super]3[/super] is much derided, but is only a bad film when compared to the other two. It's actually not awful and fits well in with the Alien canon. We'll just not mention Resurrection and pretend it never happened ;)

Along with loving the original Alien, I also really love Ridley Scott's work. He's such a poised and deliberate director. I just love the way his camera work paces a film, and the attention to detail he demands.

Prometheus has a lot to live up to, but it's okay, because I know that there's no way it can be another Alien or Aliens. There's only so "good" the film can ever achieve compared to what happened before. Alien wrote the rule book on suspense horror/Sci-fi and any attempt to emulate that would be a poor facsimile.

So what do we get? Well sadly we get a tale that is trying too hard to be clever. It's tied into canon that it wants to explain. The thing is, the other films have never tried to explain. The other films have simply been people running for their lives from an unknown, un-knowable horror. We don't care what the alien is, we just care about it's sharp teeth and tendency to rip people apart.

There seems to be two stories going on here too. There's one story that the film starts with which is potentially interesting. It shows another race interacting with ours, but dying under the same herded cattle issue that we see in Aliens. It's exciting and interesting and the first half of the film is actually really very good. It's mysterious, compelling and tense.

Then a second story arc is introduced that seems at odds with the first. It's introducing a mystery that is extraneous, just so that the film can then introduce an antagonist and produce the canon for the first film. It feels forced and doesn't flow properly, it's also very obvious with the conspiracy coming back in. It's like the script is trying to squeeze in as much as it can to mirror what happened in the other films.

Then there's the "action". At first it's great, but then it rapidly becomes formulaic and unbelievable. Well, it wasn't believable in the other two films either, but at least it didn't take the piss like Prometheus did.

It's a shame, because the film starts with such great potential. It's a gorgeously directed film too, but it doesn't quite have the edge Alien did. I do think the biggest issue is that there seemed to be a "checklist"* somewhere of things that had happened (either obviously, or background) in the other films that they felt they just had to get in there or "it wouldn't work". Sadly it's forced the film down a narrow path in the end which is unsatisfactory.

Having said that, it's still a good film. It's like Alien[super]3[/super], it's actually good, it's just that it's limited by how great the first two films are.

Solid 8/10 really.



*Here's the checklist I could see (in spoiler tags):
1. Slightly insane robot/who is the robot (reference to Ash in first film, directors cut/script see also 4.)
2. Company plot which doesn't care about the survival of employees
3. Mysterious containers that infect crew
4. Lax social ideals towards sex
5. Rape
6. Patricide/matricide
7. Pandora's Box (linked to 2)
8. Fear of childbirth (which ties up lots of these :lol: )
9. Infanticide (Mother in Alien, the company in Aliens).

Probably loads more as I think about it. A lot are wrapped up in each other anyway, but are the major "themes" of the first two films that run as an undercurrent to the plots (the plots of the first two films are simple, curiosity opens a Pandora's box that then unleashes hell that chases everyone down until the conclusion - they're very simple but you don't need much more as long as it's well written/filmed).
 
Kinda whored up the movies this week...so much for spreading out seeing them...

Prometheus

Haven't seen Alien in quite a while, but all the prequel/not a prequel talk, plus how great the trailers made it look made me go see it. I think I liked it? It was different than I thought it would be, and really, Furie nailed it so I won't go into anything more than that. I hope to see a true sequel though.

7/10

Madagascar 3

I like Dreamworks better than Pixar. That said, I hope this ended this story, because really, it ended perfectly. I really enjoyed it for what it was, and it didn't get all preachy like every Pixar movie is. I just don't want them to drag this out like they kind of did with Shrek, even though I love all the Shrek films as well. It just felt right the way it ended.

8/10

That's my Boy

I still love Adam Sandler, despite some of the **** he has been putting out recently (specifically Jack and Jill) but for the first R rated Happy Madison film, I loved it. Yes, it was stupid, gross, dumb, and everything else one would call an Adam Sandler movie, but I found it to be laugh out loud funny on numerous occasions. Of course it got blasted by the critics, but who cares? You should know when you see this that it is a stupid movie, don't expect anything great, because if you have oscar expectations from Sandler, well then you are a **** tard.

9/10
 
Brave

Got stuck watching my niece and nephew today, so to kill a few hours, we went to see Brave, which they were dying to see (They are 5 and 4). Being one of Pixar's few critics, I didn't think this was going to be one of their best.

Once you get past the typical preaching of the movie, it really isn't that bad. There was some good banter between the king and queen which made me laugh, but the story seemed a bit dark for Pixar. Pixar fans will jizz all over it because it's Pixar, but everyone else will find it enjoyable but not great. Definitely not the best Pixar movie by far, but easily not the worst, which is a fight between Wall-e and A Bugs Life.

7/10
 
The second half of Wall-E is ****. Thankfully the fist half is so good you forget that most of the time. ;)
 
tomahawKSU said:
but easily not the worst, which is a fight between Wall-e and A Bugs Life.
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OMG, FINALLY! Someone who speaks some sense! <3

PS. Has anyone who's ever heard a Scottish accent for real seen this film yet? Does she sound as TERRIBLE as the character they had walking round one of the Disney parks recently?
 
Went to see Prometheus (eventually) this afternoon.

I liked it - stylish, quite clever (but when you thought about some of the decisions the characters made, maybe not).

Did anyone else get the bit when
they are about to crash the ship into the other ship - and the captain is yelling "hands up hands up" : coaster geek!
! :)
 
Nic said:
PS. Has anyone who's ever heard a Scottish accent for real seen this film yet? Does she sound as TERRIBLE as the character they had walking round one of the Disney parks recently?
Click to expand...

Fortunately, Pixar actually got a Scottish girl to do the voice in the film, it's just the actresses at the Disney parks who are trying (and failing) to do a Scottish accent...
 
david morton said:
Went to see Prometheus (eventually) this afternoon.

I liked it - stylish, quite clever (but when you thought about some of the decisions the characters made, maybe not).

Did anyone else get the bit when
they are about to crash the ship into the other ship - and the captain is yelling "hands up hands up" : coaster geek!
! :)
Click to expand...

I did :lol:

Yeah, it's one of those films that it really good as you're watching it, but something is niggling. Then when you sit back and analyse it afterwards you realise it was actually chock full of script problems. It doesn't matter though because the film was actually so nice to watch anyway and great entertainment, but it does mean that the next time, not at the cinema, you'll just see all the holes and not how good it was as "entertainment". See also "Inception".

I watched Serenity again last night. I watched it right after it was released on DVD and thought it was a load of "meh".

I was constantly being told how it was actually the best sci-fi film ever made, in fact, possibly one of the best films ever made at all; ever.

I just couldn't see it and then found out it was actually the concluding "episode" to the series "Firefly" which gets an enormous and unwarranted over-hyping from Josh Wee'don fanboys.

So over the last month or so, I've caught up on Firefly to find out what it's all about. It's a "good" sci-fi/Cowboys in space show. When it's good, it's very good, but other times it's quite dull. The episodes were becoming very formulaic by the end too. I think it was cancelled at just the right time because it clearly didn't have a decent direction or enough to do anything other than span it out indefinitely until it dies a slow, dull and painful death.

Anyway, back to Serenity. It makes a lot more sense in context. The world and characters have the depth required once you've seen the series for the film to make sense. It's still not a superb film, but it IS good (so I've uprated it from a "meh" to "good") if you've seen the series.

So instead of maybe a 6 or 7/10 I'd say an 8/10 :)
 
No, I don't understand why anybody (over the age of 15) thinks he's complicated, hip or has a cool intellect.

Though he does know how to cast :)
 
Into the Abyss

Not really my favourite documentary because I didn't think it fulfilled its purpose. It was suppose to be a documentary about life on death row, but I thought it just seemed like somewhat of an extended version of a real life crime show. It focused too much on explaining the crime and on the families whose lives were affected by the murders, rather than Michael Perry, who was only a week away from execution at the time. It was a good documentary, don't get me wrong, but I think it was advertised as something that it really isn't. I did like the account of the man who worked on death row though, because it reminded me of a real life Green Mile, considering he met one inmate that struck a chord with him and quit his job soon after. Otherwise though it wasn't the greatest.

7/10
 
furie said:
So over the last month or so, I've caught up on Firefly to find out what it's all about. It's a "good" sci-fi/Cowboys in space show. When it's good, it's very good, but other times it's quite dull. The episodes were becoming very formulaic by the end too. I think it was cancelled at just the right time because it clearly didn't have a decent direction or enough to do anything other than span it out indefinitely until it dies a slow, dull and painful death.
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Firefly was a bit of an odd series. It's a show that on paper really shouldn't have worked, but managed to be both brilliant and entertaining. I watched the pilot episode and was left thinking "that was weird but awesome". A few hours later, I was halfway through the series, and had to take a break because it was 2am and I was at work the following day.

I'd disagree that it was "cancelled at the right time". In fact, I think it was just coming into its prime. You have to remember that it would have been a 22 episode series, and Joss Whedon's greatest strength tends to be in his overarching plot lines that are perhaps hinted at early in the series and then really kick into gear around half way through the series. Unfortunately, Firefly only made it to around episode 14, so got cancelled just as everything was starting to get interesting and the whole River/Alliance storyline was starting to kick into gear.

You have to remember that Fox really screwed things up as well. They insisted that the series had to start with a bang, so they actually aired episode 2 (The Train Job) first, and the first episode that really introduced the characters and established the show didn't air until later.

furie said:
Serenity. It makes a lot more sense in context. The world and characters have the depth required once you've seen the series for the film to make sense. It's still not a superb film, but it IS good (so I've uprated it from a "meh" to "good") if you've seen the series.
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The thing is, I didn't really like Serenity, simply because it tried to condense the "ending" of Firefly into a quick 2 hour big screen plot. The genius of Firefly was in its subtlety. The development of River, particularly building up to the turning point during the mission to rescue Mal from the space station was genius, and I'd have loved to see how that developed further. Instead of which, they had to cram everything into a two hour plot line, most of the subtlety and character development went out of the window and much of the appeal of what was essentially a character driven series went out of the window.

It's still a reasonable movie, and I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, but I can't help be disappointed by it, especially when I consider what it should have been.
 
Nah, totally disagree. Wheedon is a bit player on that front. He creates a great "world" for his characters to live in, but any over-arching story is done on the fly, or very obvious.

I look eat Babylon 5 or Lost as the epitome of over-arching series and if somebody can't match them, then I'll never see them as being anything other than "rough". Both Lost and B5 were written as complete series and complete story arcs right from the very start. The fact that B5 plays like Star Trek for the entire first series but you don't realise its cunningly laying down a story arc is fantastic. It's when the story arc kicks in and references back (right up until the very last series) things that occur in the first series that you realise just how well written it is. The only reason for some things in the first series is purely for an episode to come three years later, yet it's so subtle that when you watch it initially you miss it. It's not bodging things in later and making them fit, it's hard written in advance.

Okay, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but as far as story telling goes, it's actual genius. Wheedon falls a long way short of that, but can still produce a fun enough series, which is light enough to be enjoyable, but not too deep and continuous, so people can just drop in and out of them.

I found that the episodes individually fell very much in line with the likes of Star Trek, House, et al with a very standard plot structure - hence why it was good it ended when it did. Another series would have been more of the same structured episodes. The episodes that stood out were excellent though (like the space station rescue), but the duller episodes were just copy and paste plots. I just saw it getting more and more cookie-cutter as the series went on, and any more episodes would have compounded that. Episode order didn't make any real difference to me, it worked fine and didn't put me off the series or anything.
 
"Now Showing"

Fair enough - each to their own. Personally I'm a big fan of Whedon's work, so it's probably not surprising that I really enjoyed what Firefly brought to the table.

furie said:
Episode order didn't make any real difference to me, it worked fine and didn't put me off the series or anything.
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The episode order as it is on the DVD (with the 90 minute episode featuring Patience and the Reavers being the first one) is correct, and as Whedon originally intended. When the series was initially on TV, the second episode aired first, and the 90 minute pilot wasn't aired until later. That doesn't affect those of us watching the series now, but it probably didn't help viewing figures for the series when it first aired, especially as I thought The Train Job was probably one of the weaker episodes.
 
This is the thing, I enjoyed the show, I thought it was good. I also enjoy Star Trek and House, but both become laughable and something "you watch" rather than something you actually really enjoy. That's the way I saw Firefly going and was glad that it finished the way it did, and I was glad that Serenity wrapped it up pretty cleanly.

I watched it on Netflix, no idea what order it was in but it didn't make any difference to me. I guess it failed because it was too high budget for the viewing figures? Again, Babylon 5 always came in under budget (and it shows at times) and always made more than it cost so WB kept the show going.

I guess Fox expected another Buffy-like sleeper hit and big bucks but it just never happened...
 
^Na, Fox are just evil and never really know what they're doing. Every year several shows get cut that actually are popular and have a big following. I mean look how massive Family guy is and how many times that was axed by Fox.

I really loved Serenity when I first watched it but after watching the TV show (I was oblivious to all the fans etc before watching both) I thought the film was no where near as good. I just enjoyed the characters in the series and how they interacted with each other. I can kinda see where you're coming from on the similar story arcs for each episode but I think it was really heading into a very interesting part of the overall story arc that the film couldn't provide us with as well as it would have done as a TV show. Still, each to their own :p
 
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