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Thorpe Park | Derren Brown's Ghost Train | VR Attraction

Re: Thorpe Park construction?

^^That is your personal opinion, some people thing Saw and The Swarm are a lot better than Stealth, me for one, Stealth may look good but I find The Swarm a better ride all round.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Awful operations probably haven't helped the park either. I get the impression that things are a bit better these days, but back in around 08/09, I'd visit expecting one of the major rides to be down all day, and half the other rides on park to have down time during the day. You're not going to build a loyal set of returning customers if you constantly show contempt for them by not having the park in a fit state when they visit.

I know I've skipped a fair few Lives at Thorpe simply because I'm not travelling all the way down to London and paying accommodation costs for a repeat of Saw opening day. Sure, I'm an extreme case, but the same principle still applies to their target market albeit not to the same extent. How many people went to Thorpe Park back when they were of student age, came away thinking "it's ****, everything was broken" and now that they're old enough to actually have disposable incomes just don't bother going?
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

^^To be honest, they're so hard to compare since, in my honest opinion, they all have crucial flaws which greatly undermine them. Saw's rough, forceless and unexciting, Colossus has just been abandoned by management, Stealth's too short, and Swarm, whilst a good ride, has little 'kick' to it. Inferno is probably the most rounded coaster they've got, but just needs to be 20/30 feet taller, with a more inspired layout. Stealth is the only eyebrow-raising coaster at the park.

^Things are still bad in places...Colossus running 1 train on a peak day that really could be replaced with a profound impact on the ride experience. Chavs get angry at those kinds of things really easily don't they? :wink:

Call me late to the party - but here's my take.

Following lukewarm public reception to The Swarm, Thorpe Park Resort – along with its parent company, Merlin Entertainments – have started to shift the park’s target market away from purely thrillseekers and towards families with older children. With this in mind, the existing development plan, which called for a Rollercoaster similar in scale to The Swarm, has been revised. It is expected that this new ride will not feature such a heavy reliance on the ride hardware but instead focus on theming and storytelling for impact.

Do Merlin seriously believe building high-thrill coasters is a poor business model? Merlin just doesn't realise that attendance is not solely driven by 'big new attractions' - most of it is based on previous visits, and for that reason, it is much more important for a coaster to be exciting rather than marketable! Do Merlin know what a long-term investment is?

The ideal coaster, from a management perspective, needs to be:

- Enjoyable, thrilling and essentially moreish. Guests will actually come back to ride it...
-Unique to the UK and able to be sold to the public...without compromising the above.
-Able to maintain its ride experience and appeal with minimum expenditure.

If we go by that criteria, both Merlin coasters (since they bought Tussauds) were failures. Saw was very marketable - but is there anyone on this site who would come back with the purpose of re-riding it? Swarm only satisfies the third point.


It seems like Merlin just don't know their market anymore - Thorpe Park has always been, as they even said themselves, 'The Thrill capital of the UK', aka, pushing the boundaries of theme park engineering. It's designed for older children and above - that's their demographic, it's never going to change, and they just need to accept that. Tussauds catered for that Market perfectly.

It's all very well having a family attraction, but you build them between bigger investments. The majority of customers don't give a stuff about 'the first winged coaster in the UK' or exactly how The Swarm has taken over the UK. Thorpe Park has the potential to be a more 'American style' park in the UK, but it just doesn't deliver with capital investments, or any investment to be honest.

SUGGESTION: No joke, but an RMC quite literally ticks all the boxes. A ride that's affordable, world-class and instantly marketable by just saying 'it's made of wood'. Yes, the public may think it'll keel over and collapse any moment, but that's exactly what'll make them come through the gates, back out, and back in again.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

I strongly believe that an RMC woodie like Goliath @ SFGAM would make a successful and iconic coaster for the park that would really improve attendance. The experience would amaze the GP, most of whom have never seen or heard of RMC coasters. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't an RMC woodie be cheaper than a B&M hyper?

I wouldn't mind an expensive high-tech dark ride if it was like Spiderman at IOA- rode it when I was 10 and it was amazing.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Darren B said:
Nemesis Inferno said:
Darren B said:
Everyone seems to be missing the vital point as to why Thorpe Park isn't faring too well in their quest to become a thrill park - Since 2006 they haven't built a decent coaster. That's the problem.

It wasn't that the park was failing to be a thrill park, it's that the park was just not bringing the returns Merlin wanted/expected (I would say that it failing is too strong a term)... This is of course as a result that those guests who visit a thrill orientated park tend to not have the disposable income that comes readily to families, who will happily fork over that month's wage packet for Timmy's new Mickey plush...

I liken it to when Magic Mountain suddenly (after Six Flags were losing money hand over fist) went into the family market in a desperate attempt to get the money flooding in, even though it had alienated that audience for years and was also against one of the biggest competitors in the family park market in Disney...

Unfortunately for Thorpe, the teen/thrill market that they ended up being pointed into did not bring the overheads wanted by the big-wigs at Merlin HQ... Hence why they blamed Swarm for the park's poor performance in 2012... Hence the sudden rebrand (a positive, the old branding was ****), and the urge to get the family market in through Angry Birds Land...

This apparently hasn't seemingly worked for them though, so it's back to the drawing board and apparently a bigger IP is what's required; rather than say, tarting up the park, making it presentable AND enjoyable for anyone not buying a Fastrack, investing it filler attractions beyond spinning or roller coasters and really taking a long hard think as to why the park isn't being the juggernaught they want it to be, etc, etc, etc...

You talk a lot of sense, but surely by turning Thorpe into a family park will take from hand (CWOA) and give to the other (TP).

Surely they're better off going after the thrill market as there's an extremely dense population of youngsters in London.

This is the problem with Merlin, their actions are very reactive, rather than proactive... The only reason they're moving Thorpe more towards families is to try and boost monetary income because the park is one of their worst performers in that regard (beaten only by Gardaland)...


Ready_23 said:
This may well be deliberate, Legoland makes them a very high margin and TP does well. Chessie on the other hand doesn't really make Merlin much of a profit. What if for the next 20 years or so TP edges towards the family market, this would eliminate the need for Chessie. Whilst Merlin sold the land and leased it back for other parks they kept the Chessie land probably because of the worth (there are some big houses in that area!) If the current trend continues could we see Merlin sell the Chessie land onto a property developer and make a massive amount on it?

I'm aware that last paragraph is very unlikely to happen ;)

If you think Thorpe are producing high margins for Merlin you must not know a lot... Chessie performs better than Thorpe, but doesn't get the due investment because of the way Merlin's big pot of budget operates... Indeed, Chessie have outperformed Thorpe quite regularly over the past few years, so why would Merlin get rid of a well performing park that they clearly don't see a need in investing in highly?

Stating such opinion as fact (or indeed, the wrong things as fact) makes your wild claims of ride ideas ever more the unlikely...




The situation is quite simple, Thorpe's been the worst UK Merlin park for several years now, hence why Merlin restructured the budget for all parks so that the less successful ones could be held up by those who are actually successful... Realising Thorpe needed a change because it was badly performing, the panic button was pressed and we get poorly thought out additions to lure the family in without them actually thinking about THE situation at hand...

So this year we still have the 1 train operation (amusingly with the excuse of it being more "energy efficient"), and very little else has changed... What's even more weird is that they still purely targeted Fright Nights at the teen market, even though the rest of the year has been more towards families... It's all very short-termism from Merlin, and that's what's really bringing all of the parks that they own down into this poorly run, badly maintained, marketing dominated mess...
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Tbh I think once a park get a bad reputation it's so hard to turn it around. Sfmm is an example they tried to go from thrill to also family and it failed so they went back to thrill. Merlin sound keep Thorpe as a thrill park and invest more in Chessington to get more family rides.

Thorpe are not capable of maintaining a dark ride, within a few months the effects will not work. It will be the cheapest thing they can get away with and done as half a job.

I've never had a problem with the park I've near enough always had a good time well apart from Saw opening as nothing worked.

People slag off Saw but it's always got a queue and the public love it.

Yes it's not what we want but let's face it it's more popular than Swarm and Inferno which I think are better.

For me a dark ride is the wrong move and it won't get people in the park. If they were to build the tallest coaster in the uk they would have a selling point as long as they don't **** up the marketing.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Nemesis Inferno said:
Stating such opinion as fact (or indeed, the wrong things as fact) makes your wild claims of ride ideas ever more the unlikely...
Ah sorry I was told that it was performing better, maybe i should have looked into the numbers myself first, my mistake! (This was by someone different to person who told me about the TP ride)

My "wild claims of ride ideas"? If you check the gringotts thread, I said it would have the largest Kuka arm on a ride, 3d glasses and tyre launches. All of these ideas got shot down and look how that ended up.....

The ride idea isnt as wild as you think, whilst it may well be a cheaper version of a ride in Orlando it still should be good :)
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Ready_23 said:
This may well be deliberate, Legoland makes them a very high margin and TP does well. Chessie on the other hand doesn't really make Merlin much of a profit. What if for the next 20 years or so TP edges towards the family market, this would eliminate the need for Chessie. Whilst Merlin sold the land and leased it back for other parks they kept the Chessie land probably because of the worth (there are some big houses in that area!) If the current trend continues could we see Merlin sell the Chessie land onto a property developer and make a massive amount on it?

I'm aware that last paragraph is very unlikely to happen ;)

Chessie very nearly perished at the end of 2008 when Merlin took over. Also, it's one of the more profitable as it's the best park for annual pass sales.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

^Which also has an adverse effect as they probably look at it and think they don't need to add any new rides as it does well without them.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

CoasterCrazy said:
Saw was very marketable - but is there anyone on this site who would come back with the purpose of re-riding it?

Yes. It's a great coaster, and the public seem to love it. Whenever any non-enthusiasts I know visit Thorpe, they always talk about how much they liked Saw. It was a huge success for the park.

I don't understand why everyone thinks a park has to be either 'thrill' or 'family' - one can park can do both things. Just take Alton Towers for example - it has some of Europe's most thrilling coasters, and it's very family friendly too.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

It depends how you look at it, Furie has said a number of times that Alton is not that family friendly as the family has to split up to get to the rides that cater for different ages.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

One thing we all need to do is look in the GP's eyes. What do they want? What do they like? What would keep them coming back?

It probably need to be a "Europe's First" or "UK's First" if they want people to have a reason to come back again. Look at Saw- it had the beyond vertical drop- a first for the UK. Stealth- one of the tallest and fastest coasters in the UK. The park needs a coaster that few of the GP has ridden, and it's novelty will last.

I think an RMC would do perfectly at Thorpe. It has a huge market(UK's first inverting woodie), can be put in a tight space, and will keep people coming back.

But Thorpe got Swarm in 2012, so the next big coaster is probably coming 2016 at the earliest.

So for next year, I think the best you'd get is a family coaster. All you have is X and Flying Fish. My bet is a clone of Freedom Flyer at Fun Spot or something like that.

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Re: Thorpe Park construction?

^ Saying it will be a Vekoma SFC kind of contradicts your first point considering they already have Nemesis Inferno, so to the GP it will just be "another hanging coaster".
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

^Not really, he is talking about a family coaster, the public would see a massive difference between this and Inferno.

^^I hate to be that guy but Speed way the first beyond vertical coaster in the UK.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

I think Thorpe would be a missing a trick here if they didn't put something in which was suitable for all. With the banana boat and carousel there, the proposed area is a most suited for a family attraction.

Thorpe have a great selection of coasters and thrilling flats. What they don't have is a dark ride (X doesn't count). As much as I would love a coaster, I'd rather they spend the money putting in a big RMC on the newly reclaimed land/old farm area near Swarm.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

I would like an RMC too but wouldn't the length limit stop it being a decent coaster?
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

^ No, there is no such thing as a poor RMC. They could build one in my garage and it would be the best coaster in the UK. #fanboy
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Sorry i should have put decent length coaster, as quite a lot of the RMC's built so far are reasonably long

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Re: Thorpe Park construction?

Outlaw run is only around 150ft longer than colossus, and to be fair, I'm pretty sure RMC could build a custom layout at TP within the length limit and it would easily rank as one of the best coasters in europe.
 
Re: Thorpe Park construction?

But would they still have the budget for an RMC after spending 30 mill on a dark ride?
Sorry Ian, but I think they should stick at what they're good at.
 
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