Thorpe Park | Derren Brown's Ghost Train | VR Attraction
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elephant58
Hyper Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
^No, not really. It touches on the dark theme of X-Sector, but the whole Ministry of Joy thing is coriginal.
I thought the park blamed their 'thrill capital' (or whatever it was at the time) branding, because it dissuaded families from going to the park? I know they also blamed poor weather and the olympics.
^No, not really. It touches on the dark theme of X-Sector, but the whole Ministry of Joy thing is coriginal.
nadroJ said:
I thought the park blamed their 'thrill capital' (or whatever it was at the time) branding, because it dissuaded families from going to the park? I know they also blamed poor weather and the olympics.
silenthillXD
Hyper Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Yeah I honestly can't see it being AC themed, after all Victory is the AC game for this year, by next year, chances are it will be another time period and the multi million pound ride will be out of date. If they were to go with a franchise it would need to be something more consistent. Also keep in mind it said Whitechapel not Victorian. Admittedly it's relatively likely it's Victorian themed considering that whole Jack the Ripper thing, but it doesn't necessarily mean victorian.
Still, with the information we have, which isn't much, I am placing my bets on a Dr Who themed dark ride, with the Doctor, Vastra, Strax and Jenny hunting down Jack the Ripper. (Keeping in mind this has been mentioned in an episode of the show before) Or if they weren't going for an IP, I would hope they'd do something with the dungeons branding and make a Jack the Ripper themed dark ride, which could admittedly be too scary for the family audience.
Yeah I honestly can't see it being AC themed, after all Victory is the AC game for this year, by next year, chances are it will be another time period and the multi million pound ride will be out of date. If they were to go with a franchise it would need to be something more consistent. Also keep in mind it said Whitechapel not Victorian. Admittedly it's relatively likely it's Victorian themed considering that whole Jack the Ripper thing, but it doesn't necessarily mean victorian.
Still, with the information we have, which isn't much, I am placing my bets on a Dr Who themed dark ride, with the Doctor, Vastra, Strax and Jenny hunting down Jack the Ripper. (Keeping in mind this has been mentioned in an episode of the show before) Or if they weren't going for an IP, I would hope they'd do something with the dungeons branding and make a Jack the Ripper themed dark ride, which could admittedly be too scary for the family audience.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
The more important question is why a dark ride at all and why at Thorpe? Because that's basically why we're assuming an IP... Because Merlin have evidence that an IP increases popularity.
No dark rides outside of Chessington (and that's only because they also happen to be MAJOR attractions at those parks leftover from Tussaud's glory days) are successful at Merlin's parks. Yes, Hex is brill, but has anyone ever queued for it? And Sub Terror, as their latest attempt, is clearly not a hit if they're slashing hours and staffing to run it. Duel is a way better ride than Tomb Blaster, but rarely has a queue, whilst Chessington's easily hits an hour because ... Well. Because there's nothing at Chessington for 10 thousand people to occupy themselves with.
Maybe it won't have an IP, but I think it will be seen as the only viable option, and I kinda think they're right. I'm not sure even a really high quality dark ride will ever be popular with the British public without some brand they know that helps them understand what the ride is. All indoor rides suffer this "yeah but what is it?" dilemma that faces guests deciding what to do with their limited hours at a park. "Its a roller coaster in the dark" is easy to understand, "it's a haunted house where you shoot lasers!" Is also easy. How the **** do you explain Hex to make people want to ride it? Or Sub Terror, without ruining the surprise?
But, "its a ride about Dr Who!" Doesn't need that. And that's the point. It's not just about advertising a well loved brand, especially in Merlin's case where they routinely use outdated crap no one cares about anymore, its a case of explaining what it is.
Unless they use hardware that's easy to explain buy not a crucial secret element, a well known theme park trope like "haunted house", or a brand, a dark ride for Thorpe will struggle - imho.
The more important question is why a dark ride at all and why at Thorpe? Because that's basically why we're assuming an IP... Because Merlin have evidence that an IP increases popularity.
No dark rides outside of Chessington (and that's only because they also happen to be MAJOR attractions at those parks leftover from Tussaud's glory days) are successful at Merlin's parks. Yes, Hex is brill, but has anyone ever queued for it? And Sub Terror, as their latest attempt, is clearly not a hit if they're slashing hours and staffing to run it. Duel is a way better ride than Tomb Blaster, but rarely has a queue, whilst Chessington's easily hits an hour because ... Well. Because there's nothing at Chessington for 10 thousand people to occupy themselves with.
Maybe it won't have an IP, but I think it will be seen as the only viable option, and I kinda think they're right. I'm not sure even a really high quality dark ride will ever be popular with the British public without some brand they know that helps them understand what the ride is. All indoor rides suffer this "yeah but what is it?" dilemma that faces guests deciding what to do with their limited hours at a park. "Its a roller coaster in the dark" is easy to understand, "it's a haunted house where you shoot lasers!" Is also easy. How the **** do you explain Hex to make people want to ride it? Or Sub Terror, without ruining the surprise?
But, "its a ride about Dr Who!" Doesn't need that. And that's the point. It's not just about advertising a well loved brand, especially in Merlin's case where they routinely use outdated crap no one cares about anymore, its a case of explaining what it is.
Unless they use hardware that's easy to explain buy not a crucial secret element, a well known theme park trope like "haunted house", or a brand, a dark ride for Thorpe will struggle - imho.
Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Duel also has a throughput, whereas Tomb does not (or at least, probably HALF of what Duel's throughput is)...
Duel also has a throughput, whereas Tomb does not (or at least, probably HALF of what Duel's throughput is)...
Crazycoaster
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
^^ I think it depends on if it is good or not, which will have nothing really to do with an IP, it'll be with the ride hardware itself.
If a ride is good, it will be popular, and people will talk about it. The Smiler was good, so people talked about it (Yeah it's rough, but it's at least a substantial, long ride), and it was popular. The Swarm was disapointingly short, so people didn't talk about it. Sub-Terra is a dull ride. It has limited rerideability because once you know what it does, the basic thrill it provides isn't enough to make you want to reride. So people didn't talk about it.
Saying that a dark ride won't be popular with british people is stupid. How many british people love all the dark rides at Disney and Universal? A dark ride will be popular if it is good, and that is all it comes down to, IP or not. If it is a good ride (and not just a gimmick) people will enjoy, and they will talk about it. It's as easy as that.
I honestly think people are trying to look into the "target audience" too hard when trying to evaluate if it will be popular or not.
^^ I think it depends on if it is good or not, which will have nothing really to do with an IP, it'll be with the ride hardware itself.
If a ride is good, it will be popular, and people will talk about it. The Smiler was good, so people talked about it (Yeah it's rough, but it's at least a substantial, long ride), and it was popular. The Swarm was disapointingly short, so people didn't talk about it. Sub-Terra is a dull ride. It has limited rerideability because once you know what it does, the basic thrill it provides isn't enough to make you want to reride. So people didn't talk about it.
Saying that a dark ride won't be popular with british people is stupid. How many british people love all the dark rides at Disney and Universal? A dark ride will be popular if it is good, and that is all it comes down to, IP or not. If it is a good ride (and not just a gimmick) people will enjoy, and they will talk about it. It's as easy as that.
I honestly think people are trying to look into the "target audience" too hard when trying to evaluate if it will be popular or not.
owentaylor121
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
But the difference is, the dark rides at Universal and Disney are done to such high quality, a quality Merlin would never pay for, plus the brand to go with it, I still can't see this working for Thorpe.
But the difference is, the dark rides at Universal and Disney are done to such high quality, a quality Merlin would never pay for, plus the brand to go with it, I still can't see this working for Thorpe.
Crazycoaster
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
^ True, but my point was more aimed at the successfulness of dark rides at Merlin parks. I don't think the success of a ride depends on its IP, it depends on how good the ride is. Sub Terra isn't a bad ride because it doesn't have an IP, it's a bad ride because it's just a bad ride.
IPs are important, I'm not arguing otherwise, but I don't think an IP will make a successful ride on its own.
If Merlin have forked out this huge budget for an IP alone, rather than investing in a decent, thrilling ride, it won't increase the parks popularity, because people will mainly say "Went to Thorpe Park the other day, the new Dr Who ride was a bit rubbish, queued for ages, wasn't worth it."
But then I also think there are not many IPs out there that will really dramatically increase attendance. For an IP to be truly successful these days it has to have a huge following of people. Harry Potter has a ridiculously huge fan base globally, and that is why it has worked for Universal. But Dr Who? Meh. Sure people like it on TV, but people don't like it on the scale of a Disney or Harry Potter IP.
Merlin will not have gotten an IP with that sort of fanbase, so the ride will need to shine based on it's strengths as an attraction. Then people will talk about it, and that's how Merlin will see an increase in attendance. Word of mouth is the strongest form of advertising.
^ True, but my point was more aimed at the successfulness of dark rides at Merlin parks. I don't think the success of a ride depends on its IP, it depends on how good the ride is. Sub Terra isn't a bad ride because it doesn't have an IP, it's a bad ride because it's just a bad ride.
IPs are important, I'm not arguing otherwise, but I don't think an IP will make a successful ride on its own.
If Merlin have forked out this huge budget for an IP alone, rather than investing in a decent, thrilling ride, it won't increase the parks popularity, because people will mainly say "Went to Thorpe Park the other day, the new Dr Who ride was a bit rubbish, queued for ages, wasn't worth it."
But then I also think there are not many IPs out there that will really dramatically increase attendance. For an IP to be truly successful these days it has to have a huge following of people. Harry Potter has a ridiculously huge fan base globally, and that is why it has worked for Universal. But Dr Who? Meh. Sure people like it on TV, but people don't like it on the scale of a Disney or Harry Potter IP.
Merlin will not have gotten an IP with that sort of fanbase, so the ride will need to shine based on it's strengths as an attraction. Then people will talk about it, and that's how Merlin will see an increase in attendance. Word of mouth is the strongest form of advertising.
elephant58
Hyper Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
If it's called Chronicles of London, I won't be happy. Merlin tend not to come up with good names, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is it's name.
If it's called Chronicles of London, I won't be happy. Merlin tend not to come up with good names, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is it's name.
elephant58
Hyper Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
^Yeah, after reading some posts on TT, it does sound like a midway attraction name. Automatons wouldn't be a bad name, especially if the ride had some launched aspect to it.....
^Yeah, after reading some posts on TT, it does sound like a midway attraction name. Automatons wouldn't be a bad name, especially if the ride had some launched aspect to it.....
Lofty
CF Legend
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Chronicles of London sounds like a rebrand of the ride at Madame Tussauds (Spirit of London), (they've been doing work on it a lot recently). We'll see though.
I love Automatons though - we have been doing so much work with Victorian Automaton as of late and it is one of the creepiest things ever - little fact, they were once created with using human skin.
Chronicles of London sounds like a rebrand of the ride at Madame Tussauds (Spirit of London), (they've been doing work on it a lot recently). We'll see though.
I love Automatons though - we have been doing so much work with Victorian Automaton as of late and it is one of the creepiest things ever - little fact, they were once created with using human skin.
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
This Joey - I would bet they actually get similar riderships it's just Duel actually runs well and Tomb puts through about three people an hour.
I would also actually argue Sub Terra has an IP of sorts. The Nemesis brand itself is so well known in the UK that it does pull people in - it worked with Inferno and gave everyone a reference of what to expect. It just doesn't help Sub Terra is lame and doesn't even look impressive from outside.
I honestly think the only way this would work is with the budget, scale and powerhouse IPs someone like Universal has. A Transformers clone here would be everything and the public would lap it up. We won't get anything close to that and it'll be a wet fart.
Nemesis Inferno said:
This Joey - I would bet they actually get similar riderships it's just Duel actually runs well and Tomb puts through about three people an hour.
I would also actually argue Sub Terra has an IP of sorts. The Nemesis brand itself is so well known in the UK that it does pull people in - it worked with Inferno and gave everyone a reference of what to expect. It just doesn't help Sub Terra is lame and doesn't even look impressive from outside.
I honestly think the only way this would work is with the budget, scale and powerhouse IPs someone like Universal has. A Transformers clone here would be everything and the public would lap it up. We won't get anything close to that and it'll be a wet fart.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Tomb's throughput is about 550p/h at a guess... Trains leave roughly every 3 mins and there's 30 people per train, but given it has rows of 3 I bet a fair few seats go empty. No idea what Duel's is, does anyone have even a rough idea? I would have thought it's 4 people every 30 seconds, which would mean it's only capable of maxing at 480.... Do people offload faster than every 30 secs? I doubt it? Even if it is more than Tomb, it's definitely not a lot more.
But I still think that it's more down to Alton having more than 4 major rides.
Tomb's throughput is about 550p/h at a guess... Trains leave roughly every 3 mins and there's 30 people per train, but given it has rows of 3 I bet a fair few seats go empty. No idea what Duel's is, does anyone have even a rough idea? I would have thought it's 4 people every 30 seconds, which would mean it's only capable of maxing at 480.... Do people offload faster than every 30 secs? I doubt it? Even if it is more than Tomb, it's definitely not a lot more.
But I still think that it's more down to Alton having more than 4 major rides.
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Duel is far more than four every 30 seconds (for one it's five per car), the trains are constantly moving through the station so I'd say one car of five every 15 seconds at the least - much better than Tomb's.
Duel's queue moves rapidly - Tomb's just, doesn't.
Duel is far more than four every 30 seconds (for one it's five per car), the trains are constantly moving through the station so I'd say one car of five every 15 seconds at the least - much better than Tomb's.
Duel's queue moves rapidly - Tomb's just, doesn't.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
The 5 per car won't make much diff, as the majority of 3 rows (as with Tomb) go with one empty. Tomb's only doesn't move because it's batched in lumps.
Internet recons it's got a throughout of almost 2000.
Lolno. I don't believe it.
The 5 per car won't make much diff, as the majority of 3 rows (as with Tomb) go with one empty. Tomb's only doesn't move because it's batched in lumps.
Internet recons it's got a throughout of almost 2000.
Lolno. I don't believe it.