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Thorpe Park | Derren Brown's Ghost Train | VR Attraction

Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

But scale isn't really important, the core of the experience is.

The ride might be longer and they might have thrown more money at it, but it'll still have the same, inherent problems that come with that type of experience.

They might not be major investments but they're a majority of the recent investments, which is what we're discussing.

It also doesn't matter what the general public compare, that wasn't the point - the point was it's not this whole new, ground-breaking, never before seen territory. It's typical Merlin at this point, they're doing more of these things than they are coasters.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Ben said:
But scale isn't really important, the core of the experience is.

The ride might be longer and they might have thrown more money at it, but it'll still have the same, inherent problems that come with that type of experience.

They might not be major investments but they're a majority of the recent investments, which is what we're discussing.

It also doesn't matter what the general public compare, that wasn't the point - the point was it's not this whole new, ground-breaking, never before seen territory. It's typical Merlin at this point, they're doing more of these things than they are coasters.
Click to expand...

You're right. Scale isn't important - the experience is. But I don't think it's a doomed project as is being emphasised. This attraction isn't linear, it can be adapted and reworked where necessary. Obviously it won't need that for some time, but that's one of the strengths with using live action and virtual reality. It's not set in stone. This actually seems like it's been thought about.

Also, I don't think anyone believes this is groundbreaking 'never before seen' territory. It's just a different attraction for a park that needs some diversity. Thorpe seems to have an array of horror/macabre themed rides now, and they all prove to be pretty popular. This one should sit comfortably in that portfolio, and if it's actually scary I can't see why it'd fall on it's arse like Sub Terra, which was badly located, marketed and designed imo. Half of my non-enthusiast mates didn't even know Sub Terra existed when we last visited because it hardly has a presence in Forbidden Valley. This has already generated interest.

But hey. I don't want to big it up too much without experiencing it. You never know, I might absolutely pan it :wink:
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Yeah, I'm not getting the 'newness' of it either - the only way this could be even more typical Merlin is if it took place in a fishtank.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Sandman said:
Ben said:
But scale isn't really important, the core of the experience is.

The ride might be longer and they might have thrown more money at it, but it'll still have the same, inherent problems that come with that type of experience.

They might not be major investments but they're a majority of the recent investments, which is what we're discussing.

It also doesn't matter what the general public compare, that wasn't the point - the point was it's not this whole new, ground-breaking, never before seen territory. It's typical Merlin at this point, they're doing more of these things than they are coasters.
Click to expand...

You're right. Scale isn't important - the experience is. But I don't think it's a doomed project as is being emphasised. This attraction isn't linear, it can be adapted and reworked where necessary. Obviously it won't need that for some time, but that's one of the strengths with using live action and virtual reality. It's not set in stone. This actually seems like it's been thought about.

Also, I don't think anyone believes this is groundbreaking 'never before seen' territory. It's just a different attraction for a park that needs some diversity. Thorpe seems to have an array of horror/macabre themed rides now, and they all prove to be pretty popular. This one should sit comfortably in that portfolio, and if it's actually scary I can't see why it'd fall on it's arse like Sub Terra, which was badly located, marketed and designed imo. Half of my non-enthusiast mates didn't even know Sub Terra existed when we last visited because it hardly has a presence in Forbidden Valley. This has already generated interest.

But hey. I don't want to big it up too much without experiencing it. You never know, I might absolutely pan it :wink:
Click to expand...

You said it diversifies the portfolio, but it doesn't - it adds to the portfolio of similar sort of experiences?

Yeah, their horror themed actor-led entertainment has gone so well in the past, Saw Alive had a really long life!

You keep saying it's a different attraction but it's not really - it's the third permanent, actor-led, theatrical experience. That's just in Thorpe without looking at the other parks.

It's just, it's really going to blow. It'll be good once, but people will lose interest and then they'll take bits away from it cause it costs too much (bye actors in a year). Compare that to the shelf life of an RMC - a Woodie with hoops - and tell me this was really the choice you'd have made.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

I read Sandman's 'new' comment as in Merlin doing something new by using their high capex year to do something other than a coaster. I'd argue that this is something that is new as although sub terra and the saw maze are similar experiences they weren't built as a major attraction in a high capex year? At least i dont think they were anyway.

Ben you are very correct, this thing is going to be a huge burden to Thorpe's staffing and maintenance costs and there is no doubt the experience will be scaled back to cut costs.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Yeah but the only 'new' thing about it then is the amount of money they're wasting on it is so much more xD

I genuinely think in five years they will regret not getting a coaster. If it takes that long.
 
Ben said:
Yeah but the only 'new' thing about it then is the amount of money they're wasting on it is so much more xD

I genuinely think in five years they will regret not getting a coaster. If it takes that long.
Click to expand...

And there's my problem with Merlin's investment strategy. If this is as good as they're hyping it up to be then it could be fantastic - but the next time they make a major investment of this scale may well be in another 5 years. They just don't do medium investments.

What have we had done since Swarm in 2012? Well, erm, the rather **** Angry Birds land? X refurbishment? Got Slammer to work properly? Removed logger's leap, Saw Alive and that train? The park's gone nowhere.

What's wrong with adding a few new flat rides, a medium-sized coaster or even a smaller, cheaper traditional dark ride? Their flat selection is great - but starting to age.

Yes, it's quite a small park, but every time I go it just feels so busy - and without the fabulous tesco vouchers, it's an absolute rip off. Ironically, to improve their gate numbers, their problem is keeping wait times down and providing enough for families to do. You can't just judge a ride's popularity from its queue - Logger's leap was popular BECAUSE it was always a walk on, not because it was some multi-sensory world's first thing. And don't even get me started on Colossus...

Basically they need a big new capacity coaster - and a load of filler attractions. DBGT seems a good step in the right kind of direction (all my non-enthusiast friends seem to be very excited about it) but only if they can keep it running long enough and keep up investments.

/rant over. (All I ever seem to post these days)
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

The thing with Thorpe is, and I've said it so many times before, they need to add things that have rerideable value. It's where I don't understand their logic at all with the gimicks. Some of my favourite coasters are up there because they're rides that I want to say "ooh lets do that again and again!". If you have rides that are fun over and over again it won't matter that good investments are spread out over 4-5 years. The only attraction that's like that at Thorpe is N:I, and to a certain extent Swarm (although it's disapointingly short). Stealth is gimicky, Saw and Colossus are rough. So out of all of the attractions, there are two that I'd happily ride over and over again, but that isn't enough to warrant extending my time in the park. Usually I can go round the park in half a day and be done. Why bother going for two days? And that's where I think the "resort" bit fails.

This ghost train thing? Yeah sure it'll have a bunch of different endings, but is it going to actually be fun? Scariness does not equal fun. Was Sub Terra fun? Meh, not really. Once you knew what was happening, the only fun part is going on with people who haven't done it before. Same thing with Thirteen. And I think that'll hurt Derren's reridability too. It's not the type of ride you'll want to do again right away.

Merlin parks need a Skyrush. They need a coaster that'll create fanboys that want to spend all their free time riding the same thing over and over. Rollercoasters are better than dark rides hands down. While dark rides and flat rides are necessary as filler attractions, coasters are why people visit a park (this doesn't include Universal HP/Spiderman etc). That's why Smiler worked before the crash, why it managed to have 4 hour queues with a decent throughput. Take a picture of the Smiler and it looks like a cool coaster to the GP. Nobody cares about gimmicks when a coaster looks cool, and I'm willing to bet that was the reason it worked.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

I think a lot of the hype around DBGT is starting to die already, at least thats how it seemed this weekend while I was there. The shop was pretty much empty a lot of the time and no one seemed to pay the building any attention. I even heard a few people say they'd lost interest while queuing for other rides. I'll admit, i'm kinda interested in seeing what it's like but wasn't bothered it's not open yet. It was just the same as last time I went after Swarm opened (except, as mentioned above, Slammer now works and Stealth kept breaking down)

There also seemed to be a fair few workmen around the area in all the hi-vis and hard-hats, so there's obviously still work being done inside.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Am I a bad person for sort of hoping this whole thing fails miserably?
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

From what I've seen and heard, the hype around this isn't dead or anything, it's simply on hold. With no visible updates, no more details of what's inside to come out, no opening date and (seemingly) a freeze on the marketing push via social media, what's there to get hyped about? People who are excited about this have had everything they're going to get to whet their whistle, so it's just a case of waiting. Anyone who is visiting at the moment has probably seen DBGT and the shop already or they're happy to have cut their losses and so just not pay attention to it.

Personally, I'm still looking forward to this. I still have no concrete idea of what it is or what it does (reading between the lines of press releases and the like it's not difficult to build a reasonable expectation of what it will do, but I don't know for certain), so that's still quite a novel thing from an enthusiast perspective.

Thorpe have been in need of some variety to their line up, and an indoor attraction (that wasn't X) for ages. Whether it's a wise decision to invest in one instead of a major roller coaster is something which has always worried me, but hopefully it's something which can pay off.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

I think that's Thorpe's problem with the delayed opening. You can't freeze hype. Hype isn't something that just starts and stops as it pleases. You can't delay hype. Hype is all about momentum and the momentum has been completely lost IMO. Thorpe have had a couple of articles released and a bodged trailer to desperately try and keep the hype they had built so well before but its gone now. They dont post too much about it for fear of backlash about the delay yet no one really knows enough about it to remain hyped. Its not like a delayed coaster where its out in the open for people to see and constantly be reminded about. The only hype is the fact that its a secret and the GP dont know what its all about really. But how long can they expect the GP to stay hyped about something they have no idea about? Thorpe are just in a position where all they can say is 'look, we've built this really good ride but its not open yet, we don't actually know when its going to be open at all, in fact we can't even tell you anything about it as its all a big secret, you will all just have to believe us' do they realise how stupid that sounds? I understand that the delays are almost guarantee'd but surely have some kind of marketing or PR in place as back up if they do occur?

I'm still excited about this as I'm curious to see how well Thorpe have executed it, not because I'm particularly excited about the ride though.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

It would be really tragic imo if they can't get it open this half term and instead have to open it on a random school day where barely anyone is in the park.
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

They could smash together a quick article showing some aspect of the experience and make up some **** that Derren Brown didn't think it was scary enough to open, so he insisted this "new" aspect was added before he'd allow it to open. Build hype, make it seem scarier, add some authenticity to DB's involvement in the process
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Anyone heard anything? A quick look on the Thorpe park Facebook and they haven't posted anything about the ride in the last 21 days!

I'd love to know what they are thinking up at Merlin HQ
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Imagination on TST posted this last Sunday:

This is the problem with using so many external companies...!

VR isn't quite right just yet, still tweaking the experience to ensure all illusions are as they should be.

However, there is also some externally produced theming which is still being installed.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

Some members of staff were testing out the ride yesterday (both during the day and after park close), so it might not be too much longer?
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

I hadn't realised that this was using the new HTC Vive headsets. They've only just become available as consumer devices, so they're properly cutting edge stuff. No wonder is been delayed, they'll have been designed in prototype hardware.

However, it's good news because the Vive is the best headset on the market. So in terms of quality, it will be a long way above the Samsung devices people have experienced so far.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train (WC16) | Thorpe Park | May 2

This is using the Vive?

Merlin actually did something right for once!

Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk
 
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