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Cedar Fair Announces Investment in Carowinds

njn63 said:
When SF put up the first Batman in 1992, they built another one in 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1997. Kind of makes me wonder if the ROI isn't that great on the wing riders...


This is true(but they are still selling regardless), but you've got to look at pricing and overall size of the coaster. BTR clones could fit into just about ANY amusement park. Wing Riders are more unique , and parks want to provide something that no-other park has, which is probably why we are seeing less and less of the cloning these days. (Minus China, who have zero taste in originality :wink: )
 
Taxi said:
njn63 said:
When SF put up the first Batman in 1992, they built another one in 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1997. Kind of makes me wonder if the ROI isn't that great on the wing riders...


This is true(but they are still selling regardless), but you've got to look at pricing and overall size of the coaster. BTR clones could fit into just about ANY amusement park. Wing Riders are more unique , and parks want to provide something that no-other park has, which is probably why we are seeing less and less of the cloning these days. (Minus China, who have zero taste in originality :wink: )

China doesn't give a F&CK. lol

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like X-Flight start going wholesale across various Six Flags parks. You're right, the cloning has been few and far between these days, but I wouldn't rule it out, wingrider or not.
 
jolash said:
steel and njn,

Let me rephrase. The LAST thing I think is that MiA should try to compete with the likes of CP or SFGAm. This park would NEVER make it is a national or international superpower. BUT... The severe lack of change in the park over the years can't be good for it.
...they've added smaller things to the park almost every year, just no major roller coasters besides Thunderhawk. I dunno, I think you're being unrealistic with your expectations for a small local park. A huge investment when Cedar Fair is already making good money off the park and has no real competition just isn't going to happen.
 
Got bored, so I was looking at Google Maps to see where a new coaster could possibly be built. Obviously these are just stabs in the dark, but I came up with a couple ideas

The first thing I noticed was the fairly obvious lot in between Intimidator's lifthill and the path way. They could fit a medium sized coaster in there, especially if it goes under Intimidator. It could give some nice interaction and headchoppers as well.

My second observation is a bit more far-fetched. If they remove Carolina Cyclone (which I doubt is a particularly large asset to the park), and then relocate the wild mouse and enterprise, they're left with what seems to be a Vortex-sized lot with a pathway cutting through the middle. I was thinking they could build a compact coaster in this lot. They could also send it out past Hurler to make a swing around the back of the drop tower. They could also potentially extend the layout towards the water park a bit. If they use the space wisely, they could pack quite a few inversions in to the ride.

As for ride type, I still say they need a launcher.
 
Hobbes said:
Got bored, so I was looking at Google Maps to see where a new coaster could possibly be built. Obviously these are just stabs in the dark, but I came up with a couple ideas

The first thing I noticed was the fairly obvious lot in between Intimidator's lifthill and the path way. They could fit a medium sized coaster in there, especially if it goes under Intimidator. It could give some nice interaction and headchoppers as well.

My second observation is a bit more far-fetched. If they remove Carolina Cyclone (which I doubt is a particularly large asset to the park), and then relocate the wild mouse and enterprise, they're left with what seems to be a Vortex-sized lot with a pathway cutting through the middle. I was thinking they could build a compact coaster in this lot. They could also send it out past Hurler to make a swing around the back of the drop tower. They could also potentially extend the layout towards the water park a bit. If they use the space wisely, they could pack quite a few inversions in to the ride.

As for ride type, I still say they need a launcher.
I doubt they get rid of Carolina Cyclone. It's a very historic coaster for the park (first quadruple looper ever) and they just repainted it. Not to mention that Carolina Boardwalk has to be the only area of the park with half its theming left (seriously, I LOVE that area, it feels so well maintained) and it doesn't need a renovation as badly as other areas do.

Another thing is that there are better options for Cedar Fair than to rip it out to create space. The thing with these old Arrows is that they're either working or they're scrap metal. They really can't relocate Carolina Cyclone to a park that might need it (though I don't think any of their parks need Arrow loopers, another reason to keep it, they're almost a park staple nowadays) and I've been there three times and it seems to always have a bit of a station wait and has never been down when we were there.

Now VORTEX is what I think needs to go. Don't take a wrecking ball to it (though I wouldn't cry if they did, that thing is AWFUL), just relocate it to one of the smaller Cedar Fair parks. CGA doesn't need it because they have their own, and Valleyfair doesn't have room for it and has a few good rides (Renegade, Wild Thing, Steel Venom) and while it's not the most dire candidate for it, it wouldn't hurt. Now MICHIGAN'S ADVENTURE is the park I think deserves Vortex. They seem to have plenty of open space to add it and honestly, your flagship shouldn't be an SLC. I think repainting it and renaming it at Michigan's Adventure would be a good move for Cedar Fair. The coaster has some capacity issues (as did the other two standups I've ridden, it takes a while to load them) and while Carowinds doesn't get that crowded, it isn't exactly a people mover I don't think. While it probably isn't the best move to have two red and white B&Ms in the same park, it isn't hurting anything. However, bottom line is that there could be another park that needs it more than Carowinds. And in Vortex's spot, you could easily fit a Mack launcher that intereacts with Goldrusher AND could also be another coaster to cross state lines.

This is just my trademark Jarrett rambling at this point, but I've always wanted to say that I took a roller coaster from one state to another. Could they maybe build a double platform station (Dragster, Millennium, Flight of Fear, ect.) where it loads in one state and exits in another? It would certainly score high on the awesome scale to say "I took a roller coaster from one state to another."

Well whatever happens here, be it the grassy Intimidator clearing, the end of Carolina Cyclone's 30-year legacy, or Vortex packing up and moving to Michigan, I do think it is safe to guess this; this huge expansion is probably also a way of saying goodbye to one of the Carowinds coasters, and it's way too early to tell which one. It's like that TV show "Does Someone Have to Go" but for coasters. (That was your "Jarrett Does a Movie Trailer" moment of the day. :p)
 
2012Jarrett said:
I doubt they get rid of Carolina Cyclone. It's a very historic coaster for the park (first quadruple looper ever) and they just repainted it.
Didn't realize that. That makes that idea more unlikely (not that I would have bet on it in the first place).
2012Jarrett said:
Now VORTEX is what I think needs to go.
I would definitely like to see Vortex leave as well, but I don't really know what kind of reception it gets from the GP. I despise it, but if the average park visitor thinks standing is a unique experience then it will probably stay. That's why I mentioned Carolina Cyclone before. I figured a ride like Vortex would easier to market, and thus more likely to remain where it is.

If they do remove Vortex, they've got plenty of options with what to do with that space. I feel like interaction with the mine train would be awkward, but doesn't Vortex border Nighthawk's lot as well?
2012Jarrett said:
Now MICHIGAN'S ADVENTURE is the park I think deserves Vortex.
Never been to Michigan myself, but from what I've heard, it could definitely use a new coaster, even if it's the crappiest B&M ever.

2012Jarrett said:
This is just my trademark Jarrett rambling at this point, but I've always wanted to say that I took a roller coaster from one state to another. Could they maybe build a double platform station (Dragster, Millennium, Flight of Fear, ect.) where it loads in one state and exits in another? It would certainly score high on the awesome scale to say "I took a roller coaster from one state to another."
I can't decide if that's the lamest idea I ever heard, or the coolest one :p
 
Carowinds will be receiving 2 new water slide editions to boomerang bay in 2014. So that definably means coaster in 2015.
 
Source?

If it's true, that's not a bad idea. Carowind's waterpark is not impressive at all. It could use some improvement.
Taxi said:
In terms of coasters. Launched or Winged, possible zach-spin.
I'd say no to a Zac-Spin. It's Intamin, and it's not impressive enough to really add to the lineup. I think Carowinds wants a decent sized ride.
 
Looks like it's going to be a Giga (a la CW):

New Carowinds ride to be 70 feet taller than Intimidator
A closed-session transcript reveals new details about the $922,000 incentive deal
By Steve Harrison
[email protected]
Posted: Wednesday, Sep. 18, 2013

Cedar Fair Entertainment, the parent company of Carowinds, plans to build a 300-foot-tall roller coaster – 70 feet taller than the park’s biggest attraction, the Intimidator – according to a closed-session transcript the Charlotte City Council released Wednesday.

The council and Mecklenburg County commissioners voted this week to give Cedar Fair $922,000 in incentives through rebates on property taxes over three years.

The incentives drew some criticism from council members, who said the projected number of new jobs from the park’s $43.5 million expansion would be too small. Carowinds expects to create 15 full-time jobs with an average salary of $43,000 and 270 seasonal jobs that would pay as much as $8.25 an hour.

Some also questioned whether Cedar Fair would expand with or without the incentives.

The closed-session discussion, held in June, gives additional insight into Cedar Fair’s plans and the city’s deliberations:

• At a news conference in August at the Charlotte Chamber announcing the expansion, Cedar Fair was vague about its plans, saying only that it would build new rides, improve restaurants and make other infrastructure improvements.

The city economic development office had given council members more details about plans for the park in June.

The new 300-foot roller coaster would cost $30 million. In addition, the park would spend $2.5 million on a new water slide, $7 million on a new food complex and $4 million on ticket booth and parking lot improvements, according to Peter Zeiler of the city.

• In the June closed session, only two of 11 council members voted against the project – Democrats Patsy Kinsey and Michael Barnes.

Barnes voted against the deal again Monday, but Kinsey has since been elevated to mayor. She did not veto the incentives Monday.

Her replacement, Democrat Billy Maddalon, voted no Monday, as did Democrats Claire Fallon and Patrick Cannon. Fallon and Cannon voted for the incentives in closed session.

“I just have a sense that when something like this comes through the Chamber or somebody else, I feel pressured for one thing, but secondly I just don’t know if the Chamber says, ‘Oh, well, you can go to the city and county to get some money,’ ” Kinsey said during the closed session.

• Carowinds also told the city that half of the 270 seasonal jobs likely would be filled by North Carolina residents and half by South Carolina residents.

The city estimates the expansion would generate an additional 20,000 hotel room nights, about 0.4 percent of the total Mecklenburg hotel market. The city doesn’t expect that to be large enough to drive any new hotel development. Carowinds told the city that about two-thirds of its current hotel stays are in North Carolina.

• When the city’s incentive, called a Business Investment Grant, expires after three years, the city expects the Carowinds additions to generate an additional $110,000 a year in new city property taxes.

• The city said in June that Sandusky, Ohio-based Cedar Fair was deciding whether to expand Carowinds or its King’s Dominion park in Virginia. Some council members were skeptical, saying they believed expansions were likely at both parks.

But city staff didn’t discuss in detail the park’s announcement in 2011 that it had bought 61 acres of vacant land next to Carowinds. That purchase suggests that a Carowinds expansion was a priority for Cedar Fair.
source: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...arowinds-ride-to-be-70-feet.html#.UjsdbD_-u8C
 
Yay! This is Great news! A giga for the park would be fantastic and would really make the park a lot more popular! (Of course it will It probably be a B&M giga) so i now have pushed back my plans to visit the park to 2015!
 
I feel like this is an odd choice. Yes, this will make a nice flagship attraction, but it still leaves a massive hole in the lineup for both a launcher and a modern looper.

That said, I'm still very excited for this. Based on price tag and business relations I would assume B&M is a pretty safe bet at this point. I'm definitely interested to see how this develops.
 
All of a sudden my potential to visit Carowinds carries a lot more incentive.
 
Hobbes said:
I feel like this is an odd choice. Yes, this will make a nice flagship attraction, but it still leaves a massive hole in the lineup for both a launcher and a modern looper.

Who said this couldn't be a launcher? I highly doubt the ride will be exactly 300ft, so it means that the height is still being considered and will be somewhere between 300 and 399ft. An Intamin Accelerator at the higher end of 300ft (390 ft perhaps?)with a layout which is a variant of the conventional top hat/brakes or hill layout? Or even a hulk style launcher?

I don't think we can rule out the launched category though, as much as I'd love to see a lift hill giga happen, since we know so little at the moment except the rough height.
 
I know it's because of them wanting Millennium Force to be the biggest, but it really irritates me how they refuse to build anything higher than 310ft. They're going to run out of integers between 0 and 9 soon.
 
Casio said:
I know it's because of them wanting Millennium Force to be the biggest, but it really irritates me how they refuse to build anything higher than 310ft. They're going to run out of integers between 0 and 9 soon.
hahahahahaha so true. i know it sucks. like seriously. 311 feet anyone?
 
Hobbes said:
I feel like this is an odd choice. Yes, this will make a nice flagship attraction, but it still leaves a massive hole in the lineup for both a launcher and a modern looper.

That said, I'm still very excited for this. Based on price tag and business relations I would assume B&M is a pretty safe bet at this point. I'm definitely interested to see how this develops.
The obvious solution is a 300-foot B&M with a launched lift hill and a vertical drop into an Immelmann a la Griffon. ;)

This is great news for Carowinds, the park seems to lack a truly above-average ride other than Afterburn, and Leviathan's gotten rave reviews across the boards.
 
CoasterCrazy said:
Who said this couldn't be a launcher? I highly doubt the ride will be exactly 300ft, so it means that the height is still being considered and will be somewhere between 300 and 399ft. An Intamin Accelerator at the higher end of 300ft (390 ft perhaps?)with a layout which is a variant of the conventional top hat/brakes or hill layout? Or even a hulk style launcher?

A 300 foot top hat would be doable, but that doesn't cover the $30 million pricetag (TTD was $25 million).

As for an extended layout, it's just not something I see happening. Tall launchers like TTD seem to be really just built for the height and speed, whereas looping ones like Maverick, Hulk, and Blue Fire all seem to be smaller in scale. The only ride that seems to really blur the line (at least in my opinion) is Storm Runner, which reaches a 180 foot drop along with the inversions. Obviously a 300 foot launcher with an extended layout or inversions is possible, but it seems kinda overkill. I would still assume it's a chain/cable lift giga.
 
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