Energylandia | Hyperion | Intamin Hyper coaster
- Thread starter CrashCoaster
- Start date
M.A.R.K.E.T.I.N.G.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
See using my experience a company would not advertise that they had lost a competitive Tender against a rival company. Try find me another example of a roller coaster company advertising that they lost a project. Vekoma lost the project so other parks will be aware that Energylandia (who have worked with Vekoma on their SLC and their prototype next gen launcher F1) chose Intamin over Vekoma despite their good working relationship. I know that there will be other factors but from a business perspective thats how it will be seen and Vekoma would not open themselves up to that reputation.
Im not saying this? Energylandia have already decided they are getting a hyper with x budget, x capacity, x length and x height. When the park invited Intamin / Vekoma to tender they would have been given all of these constraints that would have satisfied the parks needs. If all the parks needs are satisfied and they are happy with both companies proposals but the only differences were slight layout tweaks why not but it to the parks customers on social media to decide? They are giving the two options they are both happy with or they just wouldn't post the videos? Therefore its not this actually a huge decision to make, all the significant decisions required would have been done in the brief given to the manufacturers.
A 25million euro investment that they has satisfied all of the parks needs in the brief so they have no obligation to give with one manufacturer over another. These things happen in business. The poll was posted in October 2016 with Intamin announced as the winner of the poll in November 2016. A huge project like this may require a year or so in the planning but Energylandia had the ride planned, all they needed to do was decide between the 2 proposals and instruct the chosen company? I know you are being logical when it comes to the internet poll but something I've tried to hammer home is that this park is not something you can apply logic too, they announced like 5 roller coasters 2 years ago, announced the RMC for 2020 earlier this year along with the multilaunch Vekoma, these things are not logical and would not be predicted.
I dont think they care about enthusiasts and havent said that? They care about the visitors to their park and their target audience hence the social media poll. Im not gonna say they didnt go with Intamin because of their track record as i know as much as you do on that (nothing). Vekoma will not benefit from other parks knowing that they lost a competitive tender as i said earlier. If they wanted to release the ride design and market it they would do that anyway as they do with their other launch coaster designs.
The thing is the business side of the decision was made, all of the parks constraints were satisfied, hence if Energylandia put it to a poll they could do so knowing that either ride is what the park wanted but with the added bonus that their target audience and customers have chosen what they prefer. Again not buying that Vekoma would have wanted it released due to perception from other potential clients.
I wasn't gonna bother writing a long winded response but I found this quite funny. I understand that you have this 'business background and knowledge on the ins and outs of the industry' but do you actually know anything about Energylandia? Do you know that the management run their company the exact way you think? Because although im barking up a pretty weird tree it in plausible knowing how insane this park is. We dont have anything to prove either way but I actually think that the park have gone with the poll decision. What would happen if there was a landslide victory for the Vekoma and they'd already signed the deal with Intamin? Would that still be good marketing?
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
Im not even sure why you mentioned funding tbh.
Of course they are different but im using it as an example of applying logic to illogical scenarios. The park is crazy, they do mad **** and have done since it opened only 4 years ago. Once again, they aren't deciding the ride so to speak, thats already been decided in the brief to the manufacturers, once the brief has been satisfied and the park are satisfied with both concepts then it can be put to a poll like it was. The park are happy with both concepts. That's not unreasonable.
Jesus OK.
You said that your logical argument was that the park does ‘crazy’ things like build lots of rides so it makes sense they’d do this.
I mentioned funding because I talked about them building rides because they have the funding to do so.
That is not the same thing as what we’re talking about here and you can’t say because one happens so does the other. That makes zero sense.
You said that your logical argument was that the park does ‘crazy’ things like build lots of rides so it makes sense they’d do this.
I mentioned funding because I talked about them building rides because they have the funding to do so.
That is not the same thing as what we’re talking about here and you can’t say because one happens so does the other. That makes zero sense.
Snoo
The Legend
Just FYI.. I was going to respond to what you wrote earlier but you just wrote this which summarized all of what you said.. so there is below!
So if you want to throw business logic out the window, they're basing their decision making off of the internet/polls.. which isn't a sound business model when you're looking to expand. I can think of two parks who did that in some way, shape or form.. Hard Rock Park and Geauga Lake. They expanded too quickly based off of bad info from both the company (they didn't do the research) and the current climate. Both parks ended up folding.
And to be honest.. if that is the case.. get on these rides quick if that be true because this park is in the middle of no where by a moderate sized city (Krakow) in a country which is a bit.. flaky when it comes to stability. That either smells of corruption or they're blowing their wad hoping for the best and as I said for the latter.. no beuno.
And as Ben said.. we're on two different wavelengths. LOGICALLY, what we have been saying would be true. ILLOGICALLY, these owners are a bunch of idiots who are bound to fail.
So if you want to throw business logic out the window, they're basing their decision making off of the internet/polls.. which isn't a sound business model when you're looking to expand. I can think of two parks who did that in some way, shape or form.. Hard Rock Park and Geauga Lake. They expanded too quickly based off of bad info from both the company (they didn't do the research) and the current climate. Both parks ended up folding.
And to be honest.. if that is the case.. get on these rides quick if that be true because this park is in the middle of no where by a moderate sized city (Krakow) in a country which is a bit.. flaky when it comes to stability. That either smells of corruption or they're blowing their wad hoping for the best and as I said for the latter.. no beuno.
And as Ben said.. we're on two different wavelengths. LOGICALLY, what we have been saying would be true. ILLOGICALLY, these owners are a bunch of idiots who are bound to fail.
tomahawk
Strata Poster
You know a closed poll result can be manipulated to what the park wants right? Honestly, how many of you would have known about this if they didnt do this one or the other. Sure, we would notice a ****ing massive coaster being built, but it wouldn't have made that impact that this did.
As Ben said. Marketing.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
As Ben said. Marketing.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
Its not throwing business logic out of the window though? The park had clearly decided it was going to build a hyper coaster and invited Intamin and Vekoma to pitch their ideas for the given budget. The park was clearly satisfied with both proposals as both met their brief. Because the park was satisfied with both coasters the decision between manufacturers was put to a the public because the outcome did not matter to the park. Either way they'd be getting a coaster that satisfies the parks requirement.
You critiquing the business model of the park and the viability of its installations is nothing to do with this. I'd agree if the poll was literally between two completely different rides and they just built whatever but the poll was set up so the park installed what it wanted to install and that was a hyper coaster (regardless of which manufacturer installed it).
@tomahawk sorry i should say that the poll wasn't closed or anything it was literally 2 facebook videos of each ride and whichever proposal got the most likes would win and would get built.
Snoo
The Legend
How is it not though? What other major parks, trying to add new additions, do this? You yourself said:
"Of course they are different but I'm using it as an example of applying logic to illogical scenarios. The park is crazy, they do mad :emoji_poop: and have done since it opened only 4 years ago."
So, logically using a business mind, a park wouldn't do this because it's.. dumb. I've NEVER seen a park use an online poll to decide their new roller coaster. Now, using the 'they be crazy' business method, of course letting an online poll would make sense because it's illogical and stupid.
Now if you say the park is crazy and going **** wild doing what they want with no regard for anything smart from a business standpoint, we can critique that as stupid until the world ends because it is, fundamentally, stupid, based off of all other parks that continue to operate.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
Please man, just listen to what I’m saying here. The park has two rides submitted by two manufacturers that both offer exactly what the park wants. They both comply with the parks brief in terms of height, elements, capacity and other important aspects. Therefore deciding between the two proposals makes no difference. The park effectively doesn’t mind which manufacturer it chooses as all of their design constraints have been satisfied. Therefore putting the two designs online and letting the public decide is not a business decision as the park is completely happy with both, the management effectively doesn’t have a preference.
Because the park has already decided it wants a hyper (the business decision) and it’s decided it’s gonna be between these two proposals (another business decision) but it doesn’t mind which of the two proposals as both offer what the park wants (capacity, cost, height etc) then to put the decision to the public is absolutely not giving the public a business decision.
You forget one thing: The detail design stage.
In the construction industry, there's a really long way to go from an architect's drawing to the start of construction. The in-between is engineering, and there is a lot of it. Every single part of the building has to be drawn out in detail, and calculations performed to ensure that everything complies to standards.
What Vekoma and Intamin both submitted was a working proposal. An architect's drawing, if you like. Just their suggested layout. No way they would bother to spend the time and manpower to do all the engineering before the contract was won. The winner would then get paid to finalize the design. Calculating the loads and stresses on every single beam and track piece connection point, plan out the number and location of welds, calculating the exact placements of footers and the loads they would be subject to, determining what size of bolts to use in every bolt hole, programming the sensor package and ride hardware, setting up a maintenance plan, and putting all of it and more through third-party controls. Those processes are time-consuming and expensive, and the manufacturer would not undergo that expense unless they got a customer to pay for it. When delivering a tender to a park, they would only do the rough layout and look of the coaster, without all the time-consuming engineering. That way, they don't sink too much money into the contest without being sure they'd get anything in return.
I bet that Energylandia's consolation price for the loser would be to promote the design anyway. You say Vekoma would not advertise a contract they had lost, but I disagree - it still is an item to put in their portfolio, a runner-up in a design contest. Energylandia's bit of PR advertised their new park, and also put the word out that Vekoma was designing Hyper Coasters. Besides, the ride drawings and video they made for the tender could be re-used by Vekoma to promote their new product. Those videos are expensive to make too, but the Energylandia tender left them with a perfectly usable media package to showcase their concept to other potential buyers. No need to make another video of a custom layout when you can re-use the one you already spent money to create.
Edward M
Strata Poster
Wasn’t this a Facebook vote? Ya, I’m sure a Facebook vote made a big difference in the park’s opinions and interests with this multi million dollar investment. 99.9% of the people who ride Hyperion will have no idea what the **** this poll was. It was a marketing strategy and an effective one at that; I mean we’re still talking about it! I think @Pokemaniac has said it best.
llCoasterN3rdll
Roller Poster
You don’t remember when Energylandia had everyone vote on which two coaster people wanted? Yeah. They put up a poll to see if people wanted to see the Vekoma or Intamin one. Plus even then Vekoma would’ve been better because it probably would’ve been longer and cost less.
llCoasterN3rdll
Roller Poster
It was a joke. Apparently you’re too simple minded to understand what a joke is. I was saying that because if you’ve seen his content you will know that most of his viewers try to look at things the way he does. And he does not like Vekoma so his followers probably want to be like him and also not like Vekoma. I was implying it as a joke. I know that Energylandia would not make such a big decision based off a college student’s opinion. I do know that they put up a poll somewhere and the Intamin version won. And I wouldn’t be shocked if it actually won because people hate Vekoma or are Intamin fanboys. If you look at the comment section for this coaster’s animation video, you will actually find comments by people who are unaware of how good Vekoma is now and you will also find a few comments by some enthusiasts on how they’re happy that the Intamin layout won because “Vekomas suck”. I said it as a joke. Call your tits everyone. Plus if you’re going to ask what your guests want then you might as well go forward with it. That’s why most parks add what they add today. Energylandia gave what the people voted for and wanted. I wish they went with the Vekoma layout but it’s too late for that lol. If they put up the poll and went with the Vekoma layout even after the Intamin one won, then that wouldn’t be good lol. That’s like saying: “Thanks for voting. We’re just go against what the majority wanted and piss everyone off”.
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