Heide Park Colossos retracking (2019)

[FistedColossus]

Never got a ride on Colossos but since closing everyone's been raving about it how good it was.

I don't recall it ever being in many top 10's - how did/does it compare to El Toro for example?

Looking forward to giving it a go myself once reopened.

 

[DelPiero]

Never got a ride on Colossos but since closing everyone's been raving about it how good it was.

I don't recall it ever being in many top 10's - how did/does it compare to El Toro for example?

Looking forward to giving it a go myself once reopened.

It was my number 2 at one point, brilliant ride, buckets of airtime, not quite as powerful as El Toro but had a great mix of floater and ejector. Still my 2nd fave woodie in europe (after Wildfire) and it's hovering in my top 30 somewhere.

 

[Crazycoaster]

Python's lift hill wasn't replaced so It's not a new cred in my book.
If Hulk's launch wasn't replaced then It's not a new cred in my book.
If they don't replace the station on Colossos, then it's not a new cred in my book.

My book's pretty simple, replace the whole thing, aka remove the ride and plonk an entirely new track in the same place (clone or RMC) then it's a new cred, otherwise it's maintenance on the existing ride.

I'm going to regret saying this, but I'm with you here.

So you wouldn’t count Phantoms Revenge as a new cred?

 

[DelPiero]

So you wouldn’t count Phantoms Revenge as a new cred?

Nope, same as Dodonpa isn't a new cred. Changes to the ride count as a refurb, and whilst sad that I won't ride the previous version, they aren't new creds.

My point of view leaves no room for interpretation, otherwise where do you draw the line? Is Lightning Rod a new cred because they've removed some launch fins so it's not the same ride? What about Son of Beast? Was that 2 separate rides? Trains changed to Timberliners... new cred?

 

[Ethan]

Nope, same as Dodonpa isn't a new cred. Changes to the ride count as a refurb, and whilst sad that I won't ride the previous version, they aren't new creds.

My point of view leaves no room for interpretation, otherwise where do you draw the line? Is Lightning Rod a new cred because they've removed some launch fins so it's not the same ride? What about Son of Beast? Was that 2 separate rides? Trains changed to Timberliners... new cred?

Ok I don't actually care about all that cred crap but if you don't count Phantom's Revenge as a new coaster than I really can't take anything you say seriously.

 

[Hixee]

Ok I don't actually care about all that cred crap but if you don't count Phantom's Revenge as a new coaster than I really can't take anything you say seriously.

Ah see now I would say Phantom's Revenge is such a major modification that it falls closer to an RMC conversion that is does a woodie-retracking. That much is obvious.

It does muddy the water compared to @DelPiero's definition, but I would add an additional caveat to his point by saying if the change included a "major change to the ride layout or style". This is where Phantom's Revenge falls. Sure they kept the lift hill, but the entire style of the ride changed.

I mean, I don't have Steel Phantom either, so I don't really care about counting Phantom's Revenge as it'll over ever be one for me!

 

[FistedColossus]

It was my number 2 at one point, brilliant ride, buckets of airtime, not quite as powerful as El Toro but had a great mix of floater and ejector. Still my 2nd fave woodie in europe (after Wildfire) and it's hovering in my top 30 somewhere.

Sounds perfect tbh.

We lack ejector-machines in Europe (at least in comparison to the US), but we are catching up slowly with recent additions and this reopening.

 

[DelPiero]

Ok I don't actually care about all that cred crap but if you don't count Phantom's Revenge as a new coaster than I really can't take anything you say seriously.

So was Son of Beast a new coaster when the loop was removed then?
Don't get me wrong, I would ride both versions and of course they are different experiences, but I wouldn't count it as a new coaster on my spreadsheet/Coaster-Count etc. That's what the discussion was about I thought.

 

[Crazycoaster]

I mean, it provides a different experience does it not? For example, if you rode SoB after the loop was cut, you'd have less of an experience of the ride than someone who had ridden it both before and after. Is that not why we cred count in the first place, to be able to say what 'experiences' in the coaster world we've had?

 

[Ethan]

So was Son of Beast a new coaster when the loop was removed then?
Don't get me wrong, I would ride both versions and of course they are different experiences, but I wouldn't count it as a new coaster on my spreadsheet/Coaster-Count etc. That's what the discussion was about I thought.

Nope, disagree. I echo what Crazycoaster wrote above. It's a different experience. I would count SoB separately to after it's loop was removed, because it's a different experience. You only have to worry about it/the numbers if you're counting to beat other goons, but I literally couldn't care less how many I've ridden because I just enjoy them for what they are.

 

[DelPiero]

Nope, disagree. I echo what Crazycoaster wrote above. It's a different experience. I would count SoB separately to after it's loop was removed, because it's a different experience. You only have to worry about it/the numbers if you're counting to beat other goons, but I literally couldn't care less how many I've ridden because I just enjoy them for what they are.

Fair enough, everyone has their own definition and reason for this hobby, yours is different to mine is all.
Personally my count is just to keep track of what I've ridden and when, I don't compare my number to others, it helps me to recall experiences.

 

[Ethan]

I don't compare my number to others, it helps me to recall experiences.

Exactly, so if you've ridden SoB before and after the loop removal, that's two different experiences you can recall.

 

[DelPiero]

Exactly, so if you've ridden SoB before and after the loop removal, that's two different experiences you can recall.

Yes, but as the change to the experience would have been a loop I wouldn't add the experience as another line, but instead make a note about the experience change.
In regards to Colossos, as I'll definitely go back a re ride it, I wouldn't add a new line, but make a comment about the separate experience, more than likely noting it's smoothness of the re-track.

 

[Ethan]

Yes, but as the change to the experience would have been a loop I wouldn't add the experience as another line, but instead make a note about the experience change.
In regards to Colossos, as I'll definitely go back a re ride it, I wouldn't add a new line, but make a comment about the separate experience, more than likely noting it's smoothness of the re-track.

Alright, I get where you're coming from there. I think you're overcomplicating it a little, but I understand why you'd do it that way. I have to disagree on cases such as Phantom though. When the only similarity is the lift hill, I'd say that's more than enough change to warrant a new cred (if you were counting).

 

[DelPiero]

Alright, I get where you're coming from there. I think you're overcomplicating it a little, but I understand why you'd do it that way. I have to disagree on cases such as Phantom though. When the only similarity is the lift hill, I'd say that's more than enough change to warrant a new cred (if you were counting).

Exactly why this discussion is so interesting. I absolutely get when there's massive change, why people would count it as a new cred (again, if they count), but that line of when it becomes a new cred is so blurry that I find it easier to follow my approach.
Again, each to their own, and I thank you for engaging Ethan

 

[Crazycoaster]

It's what makes Python pretty interesting too, because the layout is technically the same, but all of the elements, banking, and heartline of the coaster has been completely redesigned and reprofiled, so the majority of the track is in a slightly different place (you can tell by some of the weird supports it has now, due to using the original footers). So while it's still "loop loop Corkscrew Corkscrew Helix", it's actually smooth now, and is a different experience (no headbanging) to how it was before. But is it enough of a change?! Ahhhh.

 

[EndlessWire]

At heart, it's almost the Ship of Theseus paradox. By that logic, you can call into question whether all the ancient woodies around the world are separate credits and if so, at what point they can be considered to be 'new'. Personally, I don't have a hard and fast rule, I'd do it on a case-by-case basis. Revolution at Blackpool might be a different colour and have a different name to when I rode it first, but I don't count that as new, I wouldn't count Walking Dead/X or pre- and post-loop SoB as new but I would count RMC conversions and relocations. Colossos for me isn't new - the machine is fundamentally the same, in the same place and I don't think the experience will be substantially different. It's extensive maintenance, sure, but it all comes back to the Ship of Theseus - you can replace a whole bunch of parts until every last original atom is gone, but what constitutes the ship (or in this case, Intamin prefab wooden rollercoaster) itself is the greater object as a whole, so it's valid to argue that's what matters.

 

[J Rod]

Personally, I agree that any major change in ride layout warrants a new cred. I feel like rides like Phantom's Revenge are without a doubt a new cred but in the case of SoB or Dodonpa, where only a small change occured, it is not a new cred. The water gets murky when you start counting new creds for small modifications like that. For example, Timber Wolf and Boss both lost their ending helices, but that doesn't change the ride experience enough to make it a whole new ride. Meanwhile, Phantom's Revenge is an entirely different ride and experience from Steel Phantom. For me, the same logic applies when dealing with these total refurbishments. If the layout of Colossos doesn't undergo any major change, then it won't be a new ride. Same goes for Python and Hulk. Both had major track replacements, but they follow the same layouts and fall into the same category as any wood retracking. But honestly in the end credits are just personal milestones with no official value, so everyone has the right to count whatever they want to. Just make sure to acknowledge it if you're going to be a whore .

 

[Hutch]

With Hulk, the station and launch were left intact and were not actually removed/amended.

For me, if Python is classed as a new cred (even according to Coaster-Count), then so is this.

Do you have a source on this? I was under the impression that the whole layout was replaced, which is why I have it as it's own cred.

I've done both iterations of Hulk and have it twice in my coaster count. If the new Hulk is indeed not considered a new cred, well I'm not quite ready to accept a -1. That being said, I took a look at Coaster Count and they have Hulk listed as separate creds (like Python), so I'm probably okay.

 

[Matt N]

Do you have a source on this? I was under the impression that the whole layout was replaced, which is why I have it as it's own cred.

I've done both iterations of Hulk and have it twice in my coaster count. If the new Hulk is indeed not considered a new cred, well I'm not quite ready to accept a -1. That being said, I took a look at Coaster Count and they have Hulk listed as separate creds (like Python), so I'm probably okay.

I've done both iterations of Hulk too, but New Hulk doesn't equal new cred in my count for me. But if you want to, then count New Hulk as a new cred! I know that plenty of other CFers have, so there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what floats your boat!