The Games we play...

[Nemesis Inferno]

A prime example of why the Wii U is failing miserably (Mario 3D World is being outsold by Knack) was in an advert for Just Dance 2014 yesterday...

Normal advert, then when it goes onto the systems available for bit at the end, the most obvious system? The Wii...

The Wii U box was stood behind it like an afterthought...

Nintendo's advertising people need a slap in the face methinks... Probably with the Gamepad itself... They managed to save the 3DS from being a complete shambles but it's looking more and more likely that the Wii U will just go into a Gamecube style life (which isn't that bad a thing, the Cube was a very good console at the time)... The timing of Mario's release as well wasn't a great idea, being the same day as the PS4, rookie mistakes by a huge company...

It's not gonna go Dreamcast, but considering the lifetime sales have already been out-matched by PS4 and XBone, it just goes to show what a strong marketing push can do (especially considering the question, what ARE the advancements of the new generation of consoles?)...

 

[furie]

A prime example of why the Wii U is failing miserably (Mario 3D World is being outsold by Knack) was in an advert for Just Dance 2014 yesterday...

Normal advert, then when it goes onto the systems available for bit at the end, the most obvious system? The Wii...

The Wii U box was stood behind it like an afterthought...

I honestly think Nintendo were just arrogant about the whole thing (very similar to Sega). They just expected to sell, sell, sell. Sony did exactly the same thing with the PS3 too. It's amazing these companies don't learn.

Nintendo's advertising people need a slap in the face methinks... Probably with the Gamepad itself... They managed to save the 3DS from being a complete shambles but it's looking more and more likely that the Wii U will just go into a Gamecube style life (which isn't that bad a thing, the Cube was a very good console at the time)...

The 3DS was always, always, always going to do well eventually. Pokemon and backwards compatibility sell it. Zelda helps too I think, but it's those few titles that people will invest £100 in a console to play. The 2DS has allowed them to do it as a "no brainer" for people.

The handheld market has a very set type of gamer. I think that "handheld gamers" are a completely separate set of gamers compared to console and PC gamers. Some people will only buy handheld. Lots of people will own console/PC AND handheld. So the sales are always high and Nintendo make (and the people who make DS games make) games that work really well on handhelds. I think the market is eaten a little by mobile phones etc. but there's still a massive, massive, massive market.

The timing of Mario's release as well wasn't a great idea, being the same day as the PS4, rookie mistakes by a huge company...

Again, is it arrogance? I know Nintendo said they believed the PS4/XB1 release would help bolster sales as it makes people keen to buy in the industry - but really? a release on Friday? I was really tempted to pick it up alongside the PS4 on Friday, but when you suddenly find a £400 bill (with extras and games) heading your way, an extra £50 for a Wii U game is too much - especially as two of the PS4 games I bought were £25 each. I know it's the best ever Mario and worth it, but it was just too much.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one who thought that.

It's not gonna go Dreamcast, but considering the lifetime sales have already been out-matched by PS4 and XBone, it just goes to show what a strong marketing push can do (especially considering the question, what ARE the advancements of the new generation of consoles?)...

Three points here I guess.

First, neither the PS4 or XB1 have matched Wii U sales yet individually. Though the PS4 is likely to do it by Christmas. However, the PS4 sales and initial Wii U sales are both running pretty equally in comparative terms. So by Christmas last year, the Wii U had sold just over £3 million units. The PS4 could just as easily stop and only sell 100,000 units in 2014 like the Wii U did (or whatever it sold this year). The XB1 could rally and sell massively in the new year. The fat lady hasn't sung yet

The Gamecube sold 26 million lifetime and was classed as "a failure", but it made Nintendo huge amounts of money. So if the Wii U can pick up sales, then it can not do a Dreamcast (plus Wii sales figures and the 3DS will keep Nintendo afloat). It's a little in the balance though.

Advancements? Do the same as before only better and faster I guess. That's really for the future to show us.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

In regards to sales it was UK based lifetime sales...

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/1 ... _in_the_uk

Nintendo have enough cash reserve not to go into the SEGA route though, so even if the Wii U fails utterly, then they won't have to resort to making crap versions of once great games

I doubt the PS4/XBone will die off purely because of the 3rd party support, the CODs and Fifas are (for the majority) the games that get you the top money, the Wii U lacks both of the latest versions and are unlikely to see them again...

A big issue for the Wii U was the lack of a killer launch game (although even Sony/Microsoft appear to have this issue) and then the lack of anything for the first half of the year... If they'd had a Zelda (Twilight Princess) or Wii Sports equivalent (Nintendoland was not this) then things could have easily struck gold again for them... Perhaps the arrogance angle is the correct view of the situation of it all, hence why Sony seem to have gone all out for PS4, whilst Microsoft seem obsessed with Kinect...

I still have no urge to get either mind...

 

[furie]

In regards to sales it was UK based lifetime sales...

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/1 ... _in_the_uk

Ahhhh, fair enough

Still waiting on MS, but Sony have hit 2.1 million sales since release. That's essentially their release figures. It's substantially higher than the XB1 1 million - but we're missing a week's worth of data and Sony have now released in more territories so sales are bound to be higher.

Nintendo have enough cash reserve not to go into the SEGA route though, so even if the Wii U fails utterly, then they won't have to resort to making crap versions of once great games

Hopefully. The problem is that if sales don't pick up substantially, then at some point it doesn't even become financially viable for Nintendo to produce games for the system. I don't know what the profit point is in terms of sales, but if it's in millions, then they really could be in trouble.

That's what happened with Sega. The Saturn didn't sell well enough for any of their first party games to be profitable. Essentially they had to write off the entire console investment and kill it. Then everything went into the Dreamcast with the company essentially running at a loss (as Nintendo may do for the console - held up only by the handheld sales division). If the new console can't cover development cost and sales - then that entire side goes. Nintendo may well end up being just a handheld manufacturer if they're not careful. Obviously, we don't know the future, but the Wii U and first party games have to at some point operate profitably, or else the only real business decision is to stop it entirely. Then they need to decide if they enter the console wars again or not with a badly named Wii U 2.

Or they may pull it out of the bag with a Wii Y. No pad, cheap as chips, apps for your tablet and they back in the game. We may laugh at the 2DS, but it's a brilliant move.

I doubt the PS4/XBone will die off purely because of the 3rd party support, the CODs and Fifas are (for the majority) the games that get you the top money, the Wii U lacks both of the latest versions and are unlikely to see them again...

No, they won't and they already have enough sales and a high enough attachment rate to ensure the big developers continue supporting the systems. It's interesting though that the PS4 has beaten the previous console release record numbers. The previous winner? The PSP! We all know how that went for Sony...

A big issue for the Wii U was the lack of a killer launch game (although even Sony/Microsoft appear to have this issue) and then the lack of anything for the first half of the year... If they'd had a Zelda (Twilight Princess) or Wii Sports equivalent (Nintendoland was not this) then things could have easily struck gold again for them... Perhaps the arrogance angle is the correct view of the situation of it all, hence why Sony seem to have gone all out for PS4, whilst Microsoft seem obsessed with Kinect...

I still have no urge to get either mind...

I think part of the issue is that Nintendo never understood why the Wii sold. It sold because Wii Sports was:

a) Free
b) Accessible to pretty much everyone
c) Simple fun
d) A fad

That's what gave it the foothold. It was a happy accident that managed to catch the public's imagination at exactly the right time. It's something you simply can't repeat. Even with NSMB (which sold bucket loads on both the DS and Wii), the Wii U didn't sell. A Zelda also wouldn't have helped. The sales numbers - I think - really do reflect the number of hardcore Nintendo fans who could actually afford the console. If there had been Zelda, Mario Kart and SSMB on release, the console was still priced too high to encourage the on-the-fence Nintendo fans. Nintendo just assumed - arrogantly - that people bought the Wii because they loved Nintendo and what the Wii brought to the table holistically. In reality, they just wanted Wii Sports.

I think we'll see an upsurge in Wii U sales now the price has dropped and there are the games coming. It needs both games AND the right price. People need to understand value.

It's difficult to compare, but...

For £350, I got a PS4. It's something like 4 times "more powerful" than the Wii U. It can do all the extra stuff the Wii U can do (with a tablet and/or Vita - yes it costs more, but it's a consumer choice). It has a proper online social system that works easily and well. It has third party titles that are games released on all formats at pretty much the same time (not six month old titles ported) and a promise of continued heavy first and third party support. It's pushed as "the console for gamers".

You can make a similar argument for the XB1 too. There's perceived value to the gamer.

The Wii U came out showing no real power over the competition (PS3 and 360). No Wii Sports or original Nintendo software worth buying. Two versions, one of which was useless (the 8Gb version is, let's face it), the other which would set you back over £300. Old third party games you've already played and look almost as good on PS3/360 and no support from first or third party for either 12 months or just never.

Where was the value in the Wii U? It's like my 360, only with a tablet and twice the price and no games? I could stick with my 360, and buy a tablet. Or if I didn't have a 360, buy one and a tablet and it would still be cheaper and I'd have more games on each released every week than the Wii U does in a year.

No, you couldn't have Mario or Zelda, but you couldn't on the Wii U anyway.

So yeah, I think things will pick up now. £200 price point for the Wii U is worth it (not official, but lots of places are doing it for that off and on). The games are coming (though I still think they're over priced). They just need to work now on the online side, converging accounts and... A decent bloody Pokemon game on the system - preferably one that transfers to the 3DS. That would sell the system like hotcakes.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Yeah, it's always been a pretty daft launch from Nintendo with the Wii U, let alone the massive patch of death... The lack of even a new Wii Sports (although now they're re-releasing the original one in parts online, because Nintendo) equivalent, and the confusing bundles of one obvious choice (why they didn't literally go Hardcore as the Black ZombiU one or Casual with the same stuff but Nintendoland in white I'll never know) really added up... It's so clear why it failed (and is failing) you have to wonder...

The cost might not have been an issue if it had been actually worth buying one on release though... But the lack of a true killer game (or one that connected with the mases) made that year in advance completely pointless... The Wii worked because of the combined efforts of a mass market game bundled in and a hardcore game readily available from the off...

There are plenty of other IPs Nintendo could use on the Wii U yet mind:

- The aforementioned 3D Pokemon Adventure (Imagine if Pokemon Z was a Wii U game? Not the preferred choice but still would boost figures, a completely fresh one would be excellent though, as well as a Pokemon Snap sequel)
- F-Zero (Fan favourite, and would certainly bring a lot of them into it, use Miiverse/online effectively and it would at least get into the hardcore)
- Metroid (Again for the fans/hardcore, another in the shape of Prime would be fantastic, plus online multiplayer a la Echoes had)
- Star-Fox (I actually liked the Adventures one on Gamecube, perhaps with a hell load of work they could make it into a separate single and multi-player game involving the ships/tanks/whatever, lots of options)
- Kirby (Epic Yarn was a lovely game, hence it being done for Yoshi, but Kirby can easily be used as a real kids icon if they used him correctly in a few more kid-friendly platformers, even Squeak Squad on DS was good)

I would think a proper Zelda and maybe even a 'proper' Mario (Galaxy style) would also be in the works... That's pretty much a given... There's probably 10 franchise titles in that (Donkey Kong, Mario Kart and Smash Bros all being set for release already) for the hardcore at least...


So it's all about the casual and mass market that Nintendo need to (if they want to improve things) aim at... Where it gets tricky... Whilst Wii Fit U and Wii Party U are both coming in, it's not going to be enough, similarly with the poor 3rd party support which they need to go out and push to bringing them onto the system... It's that vicious circle, "we have no games for people to buy the console, therefore the console has no games for people to buy"...

Losing the EA support (as awful a company as they are) is a big loss... Ubisoft seem to be reasonably on board even with the Rayman Legends debacle and at least have Assassins Creed 4 and Watchdogs on it... But no Fifa, Battlefield or COD? Not much point bothering is there? I doubt Bayonetta 2 is going to help matters...

Even this deal Amazon are doing "http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FS23T26/ref=s9_ri_bw_g63_i2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-6&pf_rd_r=16FPV5D2PCYT845JE78D&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=397324807&pf_rd_i=1659393031" sounds great for casuals, but it's that stupid 8GB one... So stupid...



tl;dr - Nintendo should've had two packs on release exactly the same bar the colour and the game included, one for casuals, one for 'gamers'... They have plenty of exclusives to bring out, but the issues lies with the lack of anything major from anyone else, and that's where the sales are these days, amongst the casuals... But they gone cocked up severely, which is a shame because it is a decent console...

 

[tomahawk]

So, I need help with a decision and I figure you lot can help. I am getting a 2DS or 3DS, and whichever I get, my brother will get as well from me, for Christmas. I hate 3D games, and the main reason we are getting them is to play Nintendo 64 games that have made their way onto the platform, namely Ocarina of Time, Mario Kart, and Super Mario. These games are what we spent our childhood playing, and many of our best memories are from playing these games and actually getting along. We both plan on getting one of the pokemon games, because isn't that what guys in their mid 20's do now? My wife also really wants to play the mario games as well, so we will be sharing.

I have stupidly big hands, making small controllers a hassle, which has me concerned about the 2DS. If I got the 3DS, I would get the XL, but I'm cheap and I don't want to pay for it, but if the 3D is worth it, I would.

Thanks.

 

[furie]

I find the 3DS not just a little too small to hold (it's okay, but it's not quite right for my hands), but the screen is a little too small too.

However, the Fisher Price 2DS is cheap as chips

I know that doesn't help

 

[furie]

Sorry, have some time to catch up. Benin - yes

I also have the camera which has the fun free app thing with the robots, pushes the controller to its limit and a good way to see what it's capable of doing. Can't wait to see future games making use of some of its features.

I find the facial and speech recognition works well too, if a little gimmicky.

I traded Injustice in for the same price I paid on release for it and put it (and my reward points and some credit I had) for the camera. £60 for ten minutes? Bollocks. Should have shoved a new controller up my backside instead.

All I can say is that the voice recognition is good, but superfluous and that the head tracking feature on War Thunder is superb, but annoying :lol:

It had better get a decent app or two soon. Or even better, re-release Sports Champions for free

Speaking of free. The PS4 is doing a cracking job of keeping on giving. As long as you own stuff. As well as the 2 (one good, one abysmal) PS+ games and 2 F2P games, I've also got Flower and Escape plan PS4. Flow today and then next week, Zen Pinball is available if you bought it for the PS3 or Vita. Okay, they're old games you've already bought, but it's great that they're just giving them away for free anyway. I really like all the games and dip in occasionally - never enough to justify rebuying them, but enough to make me want to keep them available on the PS3.

It's just quite nice to not have to keep buying stuff. Unlike Nintendo where I own some games on the Wii and 3DS and they offer a 10% discount or something if I also want it on the Wii U. These aren't even Sony first party games FFS.

Even Microsoft offer free games! (stop giggling at the back there ).

 

[peep]

Lol, yeah they do need to start releasing some games and apps for the camera. There's a neat thing you can download for your phone/vita/tablet which allows you to draw stuff and then it puts it into the game with the droids which sounds fun (and is free) but I doubt I'll use.

My Mum's been getting addicted/frustrated with Resogun lately lol. The way she uses the controllers is frustrating to watch but she seems to be getting better. Talking of Resogun I managed to complete all 4 levels on rookie, time to try the harder levels me thinks.

Oh and I've totally forgotten to talk about the games I got to try at the PS4 lounge the other week (a free event space in London where you could play test some games). Need for speed rivals (or whatever its called) was good fun, tempted to get it when the price lowers. Injustice was good fun but I thought the style was odd, like they used a weird gloss effect?

I would have stuck with Injustice over the camera

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

I'm waiting for the Wii U version of Injustice to come through Amazon from Black Friday deals...

I can't wait to play online multiplayer!

 

[furie]

Lol, yeah they do need to start releasing some games and apps for the camera. There's a neat thing you can download for your phone/vita/tablet which allows you to draw stuff and then it puts it into the game with the droids which sounds fun (and is free) but I doubt I'll use.

Absolutely didn't spend the night with the teenagers drawing cocks and spunk for the robots to play with and using hilarious phrases like "Will, why did you suck up my cock?" [/probablymorechildishthanDarrenB]

I would have stuck with Injustice over the camera

Nah, I'd completed the story and wasn't really getting much else from it. I'm not into fighting games enough, so it would have sat gathering dust. Better to get the camera now when it doesn't feel "painful" to buy and to have it if more stuff is released. That way I can pick up the cheap and fun camera games without needing a £60 device.

The other option was to wait until the camera price drops or they get them in second hand - but I have no idea just how long that will be.

Voice commands work well. Just a shame it's quicker and easier to use the buttons

I'm waiting for the Wii U version of Injustice to come through Amazon from Black Friday deals...

I can't wait to play online multiplayer!

Is it due? Who are you going to play online? I have nobody in my friends list, but as I only know two other people with a Wii U - that's not surprising

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

I'm waiting for the Wii U version of Injustice to come through Amazon from Black Friday deals...

I can't wait to play online multiplayer!

Is it due? Who are you going to play online? I have nobody in my friends list, but as I only know two other people with a Wii U - that's not surprising

It was more a joke about the Wii U's non-existant online world (assuming Nintendo actually let you play randomers online of course )...

 

[furie]

Sorry, missed it as I have no idea what the Wii U online is about in the slightest :lol:

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Miiverse seems to be a very well populated forum actually...

The games (or at least, those with a traditional online multiplayer), seem pretty quiet on that front... But the Miiverse integration with many games seems like the best thing Nintendo have done regarding online gaming (i.e. the ONLY thing they've done )...

 

[furie]

I have no idea what Miiverse is. I've had the console since August and I'm usually pretty clued up on these things.

I have Miis wandering around my screen talking complete gob **** - but other than that, I haven't seen any social stuff on it at all

 

[spicy]

I've had a Wii U since Christmas last year and I don't think I have used the thing since I finished with Zombi U back in March. Its actually found its way back into the box, as I was about to trade it in but decided against it in the end. Now I'm just waiting for Mario Kart, as I know it will be awesome and its one of the only games we all play together and all have a right laugh. Used to love Mario Party for that as well is there one of those planned for the U?

Onto the PS4...

I didn't have a pre-order which I was kicking myself about as I am a sucker for new hardware and planned to pre-order one for months and for one reason or another just didn't get round to it. So I found out my local Game had some consoles for sale on launch night, so I went and queued from around 11 to get my hands on one...

Should have known however that they wouldn't simply just let you buy the console with what you wanted. The manager came out and said anyone without a pre-order has the only option of buying the 'family edition' which was a cool £769.99!

This was obviously a huge bundle came with 6 games, 2yr game cover, chargers, stand, Blu-ray movies, PS+, Discare cover, extra controller..

Anyway, after a few people walked off and the manager saw people were less than impressed, I spoke to him for a bit and managed to get him to sell it to me for £620.00 minus 4 games. Which in hindsight isn't a bad deal considering I would have bought NFS, Fifa, PS+ & the extra controller (£59.99!) anyway. I just ended up with some accessories & Blu-ray movies I didn't want.

So onto the PS4...

The visuals on Fifa particularly are STUNNING, like rediculous detail can even see the blades of grass and the player likeness are uncanny. However I don't believe it actually plays as well as the PS3 version.. Although maybe I just haven't played it enough just yet as I played the PS3 version quite abit.. Still really enjoying the game though.

Need for Speed is good fun and again looks great. Haven't played it much yet but its your typical NFS game here I don't think a lot has changed in terms of handling and the racing. In this one you can be a cop or a racer. Haven't played a NFS since Most Wanted on PS3 so don't know if this is a new thing or not. The one thing that did impress me was the remote play on the Vita. It plays really well on the Vita and looks great.

On the whole from early impressions I do think the PS4 is going to be the console to have of this generation, especially with the free games you get on PS+. I never used the service on PS3 so its new to me. Downloaded Resogun which was a fun little game and currently downloading Warthunder which looks good from the trailer, and its free so what can go wrong!

 

[furie]

Three people I know who have a Wii U then and none of them have sent me a friend request! I'm feeling unloved :cry:

currently downloading Warthunder which looks good from the trailer, and its free so what can go wrong!

Apart from the vertical learning curve of research, upgrade and general front end interface - you could end up flying into battle against me and getting your ass handed to you

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Three people I know who have a Wii U then and none of them have sent me a friend request! I'm feeling unloved :cry:

Do you even play it?

 

[furie]

I boot it up pretty much every day to be honest. I just struggle to find anything to do with it, but I want to

 

[nealbie]

Three people I know who have a Wii U then and none of them have sent me a friend request! I'm feeling unloved :cry:

It won't help you feel better, but I'll add you when Mario Kart 8 comes out and the console becomes just about worth having! :lol: