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Thirteen, Intamin ''psychoaster'' - Alton Towers 2010

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Just something I was considering.

On many Accelerators (Ones like Stealth in particular) the train comes into the brakes at high speed, and is slowed quite rapidly.
My question is, how many seconds does it take for it to slow down?

Couldn't you then take this rate of deceleration, change the sign, and then use it as the rate of acceleration on this hypothetical backwards launching ride...The impact on the body would be exactly the same.

I mean obviously its not going to be a particularly powerful launch, but by the looks of it this is going to be quite a family oriented ride anyway.
The other thing to keep in mind is that even if it is a somewhat weak launch in terms of numbers, its still going to feel a bit strong/thrilling since forces in that direction are unusual.

In terms of restraints, then Intamins OTSR (or even the newer type used on Tornado at Bakken) would suffice?
 
Braking, as pointed out above is the same as a backwards launch in terms of the forces, both produce eyes out g-force, or negative acceleration g-force.

Irn Bru Revolution at Blackpool has a backwards launch, snd that does not use overly restrictive, mad restraints.

But does it really matter? If anything, not knowing what happens in the building until your on the ride would be better than knowing beforehand.
 
Gazza said:
On many Accelerators (Ones like Stealth in particular) the train comes into the brakes at high speed, and is slowed quite rapidly.
My question is, how many seconds does it take for it to slow down?

Couldn't you then take this rate of deceleration, change the sign, and then use it as the rate of acceleration on this hypothetical backwards launching ride...The impact on the body would be exactly the same.

I mean obviously its not going to be a particularly powerful launch, but by the looks of it this is going to be quite a family oriented ride anyway.
The other thing to keep in mind is that even if it is a somewhat weak launch in terms of numbers, its still going to feel a bit strong/thrilling since forces in that direction are unusual.
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The data we have from our accelerometer from various Intamin coasters with magnetic brakes shows that they range from about 0.6-1.4g's (where most is at around 1g) of deceleration force.
And the smaller accelerator coasters (Kanonen and Speed Monster) have a launch force of about the same, where as the larger/faster ones have a higher launch force. So you can get a decent punch in a backwards launch, but it would probably be pretty uncomfortable.
 
So you can get a decent punch in a backwards launch, but it would probably be pretty uncomfortable.
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Well, not necessarily....I mean Accelerators are one of the most 'whore-able' rides out there, and on each lap you are getting that dose of negative acceleration. Its not as if you walk off the ride with a sore chest and neck after several laps, let alone one.

So, going by your average, -1g, I can't see any real issues with launching backwards at that speed.

I mean, Both of the 'family' launchers here (Jet Rescue and Mick Doohans Motocoaster) launch at about +0.9g...its a 'fun' launch, but it doesn't feel weak or anything. I'd imagine doing the same in reverse would be equally exciting.

It certainly doesn't have to be as slow as UC is stating (Top speed isn't the important factor anyway, but rather the rate of acceleration).... Putting all this together, A -1g launch up to say 70km/h (43 mph) is quite feasible, and would allow for a pretty decent ride, especially if it can pick up a bit of extra speed by following the terrain.
 
Well, not necessarily....I mean Accelerators are one of the most 'whore-able' rides out there, and on each lap you are getting that dose of negative acceleration. Its not as if you walk off the ride with a sore chest and neck after several laps, let alone one.
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Yeah but its a whole lot different if you've felt your back been whipped and your eyes felt as if they were going to pop out.

So, going by your average, -1g, I can't see any real issues with launching backwards at that speed.
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a) Its ****ing uncomfortable

b) You'd need so much padding or some sort of shock absorber so you don't get as much force, but that be ridiculous...

c) Its ****ing bloody uncomfortable!

It certainly doesn't have to be as slow as UC is stating (Top speed isn't the important factor anyway, but rather the rate of acceleration).... Putting all this together, A -1g launch up to say 70km/h (43 mph) is quite feasible, and would allow for a pretty decent ride, especially if it can pick up a bit of extra speed by following the terrain.
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Yeah but the problem is that the launch would have to be so long to deal with the slow launch up to the -1g launch that the plans don't have this GIANT launch.

Its not going to be backwards launched, as its not ****ing 'world first'!!

**** sake.
 
Just to finish this off.

There's a chance there IS a backwards launch. However, it's simply part of the mechanism inside the building. The backwards launch (if it exists) is not the major part of the ride.

We currently have only one bit of evidence there's a backwards section, and that's the switch track outside the building.

The track leaves the building below ground level, and goes in an upwards helix to about 8 or 9 metres high. The helix itself is roughly the size of the bottom curve of Corkscrew (just so people have some ideas of scale).

I'll bet a slow, 20MPH "launch" could get the train around the helix and up to station level again. It would feel stronger then 20MPH if there are effects in the building to fool the mind.

However, it's not going to be a fast launch at all (if it IS launched, it could still be from a drop in the building), plainly due to the distance it has to travel, it's a small area the backwards section actually covers.

If you want to discuss the feasibility of backwards launches, this isn't the place.
 
Is there any infomation on trains/cars yet? The length of the train will dramatically alter the degree of things it can do in the station. A single car could do a short twisting move, Eurofighter style, where a train would struggle to be so manoeuvreable. The space inside the station is quite tight, so i'm thinking single cars are more likely.

Adding clues together, to me it looks like a steep, short backwards drop, but not even a vertical one is a words first.
 
I see people saying this is most likely going to be a Premier, but I have a horrible feeling it's going to be Gerstlauer.

It would make sense, Merlin buying two coasters from them.
Ugh, I just hope it turns out to be Premier or Intamin.

Also on paper the layout looks kinda crap, but atleast it's not Furius Baco crap.
 
If it IS Gerstlauer, it's not a Eurofighter, so we're probably okay. I'm personally about 50/50 split between Premier and a Mack eMotion coaster. Both fit the bill best.

Of course, the field is still completely open, but those two sit the highest on probability from what we have seen so far (track style, layout, "unique section").
 
It could be Vekoma though seeing as Expedition Everest had a reverse section. I think its feasible to be a lot of companies, not Intamin or BM but other good ones.

And to follow up on Inverse's point, the way they flip the track on Expedition Everest may be the way they do the backwards section, meaning the only thing stopping the trains length is the size of the building itself.
 
Slash said:
It could be Vekoma though seeing as Expedition Everest had a reverse section. I think its feasible to be a lot of companies, not Intamin or BM but other good ones.
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Yes, it could - as long as they get Premier or Mack or Gerstlauer to produce their track and supports for them ;)
 
I keep looking at Blue Fire and wondering if that ride concept will be in the plans (as in the train and track style)
 
furie said:
Slash said:
It could be Vekoma though seeing as Expedition Everest had a reverse section. I think its feasible to be a lot of companies, not Intamin or BM but other good ones.
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Yes, it could - as long as they get Premier or Mack or Gerstlauer to produce their track and supports for them ;)
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Ahhhh.... Wait a second look at Expedition Everest though, that's Vekoma and that uses a type of bi rail, with a lot of supporting yes but this is a fairly (seemingly) small coaster and Vekoma have used Bi Rail before. Maybe again, although supports may make my point invalid but I don't know each manufacturers supporting style.

ANYWAY

Would it still be possible to use the same concept with "flipping" the track though?
 
EE uses completely different track style AND supports :)

To sum up on trains... It's difficult, but if we look at through put:

The plans say the throughput is higher than that of Rita - around 1,200 pph

The Premier trains hold four per car, three cars on the Backlot Stunt Coasters. Max RPM has six per car. The three car versions have a through put of about 1,000.

Mack (Blue Fire) has 20 per train, with a through put of about 1,700 per hour.

The Mack E-Motion coasters are more like 1,100 - one car - six people per car.

Intamin Mega-lites are around the 800 pph limit.

Eurofighters are around the 800 pph mark, no information on the launched Gerstlauers.

So, looking at that, the shorter trains/single cars really if you take into account capacity. However, this is "something new", so capacity may not really give a clear indication. However, I doubt it would be massively different.

I still think we're looking at either the e-Motion, or the Premier with three cars per train, four people per car (so still quite short).
 
I think the eMotion from Mack is a good possibility. Maybe after the switchback section the cars could turn 180 degrees, launch then as there going round the final helix turn to face backwards?

This idea would kinda make the switch back's pointless, but it would be a great way to save space on the coaster's footprint.
 
^^ Ok, I see what you mean, I was just trying to see if the track was feasible or not and it seems not. I'd be headed more towards Premier because, as you say, they have previous experiences.

Am I right in saying that Premier did the "turntable" thing with the Mummy where they turned the car around by using that? Is that how you would expect them to do it this time?
 
COuld be a turntable, but don't know yet, and I would kida like that to be a surprise on opening day, love to not know what was happening.

Apperently construction starts next week and track will arrive late July/early August, although it won't tell us much, unless it come in boxes maked Premier, Vekoma or Intamin on the sides, what with it being 2-rail track.
 
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